m 65 187.5 b 69.625 185 73.75 182.875 77.75 180.75 82.875 178 87.75 175 92.875 172.25 95.75 170.625 98.875 169.25 101.75 167.625 105.75 165.375 109.75 163.125 113.75 161 116.5 159.375 119.5 158 122.25 156.5 125.25 154.875 128.125 153.125 131.125 151.5 133.125 150.5 135.125 149.5 137 148.5 140.125 146.875 143.125 145 146.25 143.375 149 141.875 151.75 140.625 154.5 139.125 157.375 137.5 160.25 135.875 163.125 134.25 164.75 133.375 166.375 132.5 167.875 131.625 172.25 129.25 176.625 126.875 181 124.5 184.125 122.875 187.375 121.375 190.5 119.625 194.5 117.5 198.375 115.125 202.375 113 202.75 112.75 203.25 112.375 203.625 112.25 203.625 117.375 203.875 122.75 203.5 127.625 203.125 131.75 202.375 135.875 201.375 140 200.25 144.5 199 149.125 196.75 153.25 195 156.625 193.75 160.375 191.75 163.625 190 166.75 187.75 169.5 185.75 172.375 184.75 173.875 183.75 175.375 182.5 176.625 181 178.25 179.375 179.75 177.875 181.25 176.125 182.875 174.5 184.625 172.75 186.125 171.375 187.25 169.875 188.375 168.375 189.375 165 191.5 161.625 193.75 158.125 195.875 156.375 197 154.25 197.75 152.25 198.5 149.75 199.625 147.125 200.75 144.5 201.75 143.875 202 143 202 142.25 202.25 136.625 204.125 130.875 205 124.875 205.25 121.125 205.375 117.375 206 113.75 205.75 108.5 205.375 103.25 204.625 98 203.625 94.375 202.875 90.75 201.625 87.25 200.25 83.75 198.875 80.25 197 77 195.25 74.125 193.75 71.5 192.125 68.75 190.375 67.5 189.625 66.5 188.625 65 187.5 m 58 189.125 b 53.875 185.125 49.625 180.875 45.25 176.625 48.5 174.25 51.25 172.375 54 170.25 58 167.25 61.875 164.125 65.875 161.125 68 159.5 70.375 158.125 72.5 156.5 75.375 154.25 78.125 152 81 149.75 83.75 147.625 86.625 145.625 89.375 143.5 91.75 141.625 94.25 139.875 96.625 138 98.5 136.625 100.5 135.25 102.375 133.75 106.25 130.875 110 127.875 113.875 125 116 123.375 118.125 121.875 120.25 120.25 123.375 118 126.375 115.625 129.5 113.25 131.625 111.75 133.75 110.25 135.875 108.75 138.125 107 140.25 105.25 142.5 103.5 144.125 102.375 1
翻译：jio安娜、巨可爱呆
我们的总统候选人 查尔斯·林德伯格 Our candidate for president... Charles Lindbergh!
翻译：Stellalala、奎奎
犹太人 The Jewish people
翻译：史荣浩、Dynamite
正将美国推向这场新战争 are pushing the United States into this new war.
翻译： 吃草莓的橙子
林德伯格想成为第二个希特勒 Lindbergh wants to be another little Hitler himself.
我相信他是个好人 I believe he is a good man.
翻译： 大兔子 、Elim
- 这是我的祖国 - 已经不是了 -This is my country. -Not anymore.
校对：顾盼 、歪二德
后期：歪二德终于毕业了
现在成了他们的国家 It's their country.
压制：储蓄罐
监制：歪二德
我们只是认为自己是美国人 We only think we're Americans.
总监：柚子
在华盛顿从政的你 As someone working in politics in DC,
是如何看待虚假新闻的呢 what do you think about fake news?
虚假新闻一直都有 我会把它当武器来用 I would use fake news as a weapon 'cause it's out there.
德国用过化学武器 英国也用过 The Germans used chemical weapons, the British used chemical weapons.
你能怎么办 What are you gonna do?
用过不代表喜欢用 It doesn't mean you like chemical weapons.
只不过当时是不得已而为之 It means you do what you have to do.
杰克·伯克曼 政治家
我捏造过几条虚假新闻 我甚至都已经不记得内容了 I've tried some fake news. I don't even remember.
我们做过一些尝试 We've tried some things.
可能会有很可怕的负面影响 但那又怎么样呢 there are terrible, negative potential consequences, but so what?
我就是这么想的 又能怎么样呢 That's what I say. So what?
有什么大不了的 What's the big deal?
我们治国的立场总是 We've always taken the position in this country,
真真假假的消息全都放出来 让人们去判断 let it all come out, let the people judge.
尽管这样有风险 Despite the dangers.
但人们要怎么判断虚假消息和谎言呢 But how can the people judge fake stories and lies?
还是说你觉得我们处于一个后真相时代 Or do you think we're in a post-truth moment?
后真相：指一些人为了自身利益，无视客观事实，盲目迎合受众的情绪与心理, 使用断言、猜测、感觉等表达方式，强化、极化某种特定观点攻讦抹黑对手，或博取眼球效应和支持率
我不知道 Oh, I don't know.
什么是真相 I mean, what is truth?
你是学哲学的 应该知道这世界没有真相 You study philosophy, there is no reality.
只有观点 There is only perception.
所以你说 我们是不是处于一个后真相时代 So when you say, are we in a post-truth moment,
绝大多数哲学家会告诉你 most philosophers on all sides would tell you
这个世界本来就没有所谓的真相 there was never any such thing as truth to begin with.
真 相 之 后
虚 假 新 闻 与 信 息 的 代 价
真 相 之 后
华盛顿，《纽约时报》新闻办公室
现在有一种现象越来越明显了 There is this ecosystem that's growing now
就是人们分不清新闻的真假 where people are actually confusing real and fake news,
尤其是那些在网上看到的消息 especially if they see it online.
我们正活在"后真相"文化中 This "post-truth" culture that we're living in
伊丽莎白·威廉逊 《纽约时报》
这对读者来说是有代价的 has real costs to the people
他们成为了那些造谣者的受害人 who are victimized by those who come up with these theories and themes.
虚假消息在网上泛滥 People have suffered because of false news
人们已经不胜其扰 that's being spread online.
2015年的夏天第一次警醒了我们 The summer of 2015 was really the first sign
我们的信息领域 that there was something happening
莫莉·麦克 乔治城大学 虚假信息专家
正发生着一些事情 in our information space
而我们之前对它不够重视 that we weren't paying enough attention to.
当时在美国西南部 There was a two-month long military exercise
德克萨斯州 巴斯特罗普
进行着一次为期两个月的军事演习 代号"翠绿头盔" that was occurring in the American Southwest, Jade Helm,
但当时针对这次演习出现了一个阴谋论 and this conspiracy emerged around it
说奥巴马总统打算围捕 that President Obama was going to round up
政治异见人士 并将他们关在德克萨斯州的集中营里 political dissidents and put them in camps in Texas.
百步穿杨 德克萨斯州 枪支专卖店
假新闻 我怎么看 Fake news. What do I think about it?
我想起一句俗话 A very old saying comes to mind.
所闻尽不能信 所见不能尽信 Don't believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.
我经常遇到这种情况 I find myself there a lot.
不知道哪些新闻是真的 哪些是假的 I don't know what's real and what's fake.
巴斯特罗普是一个乡下地方 大家互相都很熟悉 Here in Bastrop, it's a very close-knit, rural community.
典型的美国小镇 像家乡一样的地方 Typical small-town America, hometown value structure.
特洛伊·米查克 百步穿杨枪支专卖店店主
2015年奥巴马当政的时候 In 2015, back during the Obama administration,
有好多人都忧心忡忡 there was a huge amount of concern
不信任联邦政府 about distrust of the national government.
所以大家一发现 And once people found out
巴斯特罗普这里会有一场 that there was gonna be a major military operation
重要军事行动 很多人 in Bastrop County, a lot of people were,
就开始拼凑信息了 you know, making puzzle pieces fit together.
我们进行军事演习会 We're going to be conducting the training exercise
注意安全和礼貌 safely and courteously.
不会侵犯到当地居民的隐私 We're not gonna interfere with their privacy
以及权利 or their rights with this.
美军表示这是一次为期八周的 The army says it's an eight-week training exercise
实地军事演习 in a realistic setting,
但没有披露更多的信息 but they're not saying much beyond that.
保罗·帕普 巴斯特罗普县法官
我们开始接到群众的质疑 We began to get inquiries from people.
为什么你会允许军队 Why are you allowing the military
保罗·帕普 巴斯特罗普县法官
来巴斯特罗普 to come into Bastrop County?
会发生什么事情 他们为什么要过来 What's gonna happen, and why are they coming here?
然后 各种阴谋论都糅杂到一起了 And then, all sorts of conspiracies were put together.
真相不过就是他们要来演练 The truth is that it's an exercise,
在我们这里模拟实施戒严 um, for enacting martial law in this country.
这次主要进行戒严 以及接管当地事务的演练 This is conditioning for martial law and a takeover.
艾力克斯·琼斯 《战争消息》创始人
我调到另一个节目 And then I tuned into another show.
听到他们也是这样说 "我觉得艾力克斯·琼斯是对的" They're saying the same thing, "I guess Alex Jones was right."
真是让我醍醐灌顶啊 There's been an awakening.
我们这儿刚好成为了 We happened to be kind of the clearinghouse
大家交换信息的场所 of a lot of conversation.
大家都来这里 把这里当酒吧 People would come here, it's like the pub,
过来讨论这件事 to talk about it.
有人来讲个故事 另一个人安慰他 Somebody shares a story, somebody else commiserates,
然后大家都赶上了这个潮流 and then everyone else jumps on the bandwagon.
尼娜&卡莱布·罗奇 巴斯特罗普居民
我觉这件事很大程度是因为 I think it has a lot to do with, you know,
大家都迷上了谷歌 having a degree in Google.
是不是疫苗导致了自闭症 Whether it's vaccines cause autism,
是不是共济会的蜥蜴人操纵着全世界 Masonic lizard people running the world,
该阴谋论认为，地球上权利最大的势力并不是美国政府，而是世界最大幕后组织"共济会" 共济会基层成员是比尔盖茨等世界顶级商业精英，中层成员则是世界各国领导人 而共济会最高层则是蜥蜴人和小灰人这些外星势力。 几千年来他们始终未曾露面，一直藏在世界幕后操纵着人类社会的发展。 尤其是在最近的300年里，他们加紧了对人类的整体控制，而全人类对此却浑然不觉。
还有"翡翠头盔"事件 我们非常渴望相信这些阴谋论 Jade Helm, we want so hard to believe even in conspiracies
都是真实存在的 that things actually exist,
这世界确实存在幕后交易 that there is an underlying deal,
而我们知道了别人不知道的秘密 that we have some knowledge that other people don't.
我们想要相信这些都是真的 And we want to believe all that,
但有时候 假的就是假的 um, but it's... sometimes, it's just not true.
我将前往德克萨斯州的巴斯特罗普 I will be headed to Bastrop, Texas,
报道翡翠头盔15号军演 to report on the Jade Helm '15 military exercise.
我不相信那些企业媒体 I don't trust the corporate media.
我不想别人来告诉我现在到底发生着什么 I don't want somebody else to tell me what's going on.
我要自己去一探究竟 I want to go find out for myself.
依我看 "翡翠头盔"是一次心理战 In my view, Jade Helm was a psychological operation
来摸清人们对此的反应 to gauge the response.
德里克·布罗泽 油管博主 意识抗拒网（一家国外的媒体组织）成员
军演真的要进行的话 Will the people, you know,
大家会乐意接受吗 be complacent when this exercise happens?
他们会不会抗议 Will they push back?
我们要进去了 看到了吗 企业媒体就是这么干的 We're gonna go inside. See, this is what the corporate media does.
他们就在街对面站着 They stand across the street,
而我们会进去 and we go inside.
德克萨斯州国民警卫队斯威夫特营
我们竟然进来了 真不敢相信 I can't believe we're in here.
我个人比较推崇个人责任 I believe in personal responsibility.
如果有人读到一篇文章 并因为 If somebody reads an article and they go crazy because of that,
其中一些内容而失控 because whatever issues they got going on,
我觉得我不应该 like, I don't know how I can, you know,
因此负上责任 be held responsible for that.
当时很多人都在信口胡诌 There are many who made some pretty wild claims.
社交媒体就是这些谣言的温室 And social media is the devil.
所以从我个人立场 政府公开 So in my interest in open government
以及信息透明等角度出发 我说 and in transparency, I said,
我们开一场市政厅会议 well, let's just have a town hall meeting
跟大家好好解释一下这件事情 and explain this to everybody.
科洛内尔·拉索利亚过来这边 我们让他 Colonel Lastoria came and we asked him
科洛内尔·拉索利亚 美军发言人
向所有关心这件事的民众解释 to explain to everyone who was interested
这次演习到底包括什么环节 what exactly the operation was going to entail.
"翡翠头盔"行动不过就是一次极具挑战性的 Jade Helm is simply just a challenging,
巴斯特罗普市政厅， 2015年4月
为期八周的 eight-week training exercise
非常规作战演习 for unconventional warfare
这次演习将会在 and it's an exercise that will be conducted
整个德克萨斯州 新墨西哥州 阿里桑拿州以及犹他州进行 throughout Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah.
专员法院会考虑撤回对这些人的邀请吗
如果我说刚才上校说的话我一个字都不信 会冒犯法院吗
用歇斯底里这个词可能有点过头 Hysteria is a little strong of a word,
但当时很多人都是歇斯底里的状态 but there were pockets of hysteria.
是不是因为要给这些参加翡翠头盔15号军演的军队安排住处
所以我们附近的沃尔玛最近都不开门了
不是
大家再一次曲解了这件事
在翡翠头盔事件中你发现一些原本正常的市民 You had people that were otherwise normal people,
开始相信德克萨斯州里的所有沃尔玛地下 in the Jade Helm thing, believing that there was an underground
都有通道网将它们连接在一起 network of tunnels that connected all the Walmarts in Texas.
罗斯·拉姆齐 《德克萨斯论坛报》执行主编兼联合创始人
这些都是可以容纳很多人的巨型建筑 These are giant facilities that can house people.
所以人们开始传言 So people started speculating that, okay,
这些沃尔玛正在改建成诸如 these Walmarts are getting ready to be turned into
集中营 临时拘留所之类的地方 concentration camps, detention centers, what have you.
今天 州长格雷格·阿博特委派 Today, Governor Greg Abbott is choosing to assign
德克萨斯州国民警卫队来密切监视这次演练 the Texas State Guard to monitor the operation.
州长阿尔伯特表示他这么做 Commander Abbott states his reasoning is...
"是为了回应德克萨斯州公民对此事的关注，以及 保证德克萨斯州的安全、稳定，以及消息的及时更新" -州长格雷格·阿博特
你让一部分市民组织起来 You get a part of the citizenry worked up
《德克萨斯论坛报》
然后州长对这件事的反应方式看起来就像是 and the governor reacted to it in a way that looked like
州政府非常认真对待这件事 the state government was taking this seriously.
这件事的发展相对来说比较快 The relatively quick jump of that information
从阴谋论博客到市政厅会议 from conspiracy blogs to town hall meetings
再到州长办公室表态 我认为 to the governor's office, I think,
格雷格·阿尔伯特州长 德克萨斯州
这是非常值得关注的 起码军队以及 was of great concern, certainly to the military
我们的情报部门绝对会关注 and to our intelligence services.
最近 前美国中情局和国家安全局局长迈克尔·海登 Recently, Michael Hayden, the former CIA and NSA director,
在谈及此事时 把这次 talked about this, very clearly linking
翡翠头盔军演虚假消息大肆发酵的矛头 the disinformation campaign around Jade Helm
直指针对美国的俄罗斯情报活动 to Russian information activities targeting the United States.
俄罗斯的诡计以及捣乱分子 Russian bots, Russian trolls,
声音来源： 前美国中情局局长迈克尔·海登
再加上美国的另类右翼媒体 combining with the American alt-right media
成功让很大一部分的德克萨斯州市民相信 convinced a non-trivial portion of the Texas population
这次军演是奥巴马政府 that it was an attempt by the Obama administration
围捕政治异见分子的一次尝试 to round up political opponents.
让我觉得有趣的是 有人会把 It was interesting to me that someone would tie
在巴斯特罗普发生的事 what went on here in Bastrop County
与俄罗斯干预美国政治的全球关注事件 to this worldwide concern about Russian interference
联想到一起 但你也知道 in American politics, but you know what, um,
这世界挺小的 it's a small world.
在德克萨斯州 In Texas,
我们不把自己州的经济与别的州比 we don't compare our economy to other states.
我们把自己的经济与别的国家比 We compare our economy to other countries.
德克萨斯州的经济规模比加拿大的大 The Texas economy is larger than Canada,
州长格雷格·阿尔伯特
也比澳洲大 it's larger than Australia.
还有 听好了 And get this,
德克萨斯州的经济规模甚至比俄罗斯的都大 the Texas economy is even larger than the economy of Russia.
这意味着我比普京厉害多了 That makes me more powerful than Putin.
那是一次考验 That was a test.
这件事告诉我们 And what all of it showed was
我们正处于一个将信息武器化的时代 we are in a weaponized information environment.
所以现在我觉得人们 So we're at the point now where I don't think people
基本分不清什么是真什么是假 can distinguish fact from truth anymore
又或者人们开始编造他们自己相信的真相 or people are starting to make their own truth,
说实话 我是能接受的 and honestly, I'm okay with that.
现在每天早上我会收到差不多8个 I have about eight different daily digests
不同的每日新闻汇总推送 that come into my inbox every morning
有些来自不同的脸书账号 有些来自别的平台 from different Facebook pages and other things
我们已经追踪这些东西一段时间了 that we've started tracking over time.
那些试图传播不实信息的人会发布有关党间斗争的内容 I scan hyper-partisan stuff from people who tend to
一位法官 由于通过伊斯兰法 在美国实施被当即革职
而我会对其进行筛查 propagate misinformation.
差不多一早醒来就泡在互联网的垃圾信息里 And it's basically just like starting your morning bathing in Internet garbage,
克雷格·西尔弗曼 美版今日头条
这是很棘手的问题 is pretty much the deal.
自2014年起 我一直在审查虚假新闻 I have been looking at false stories since 2014.
当时有少数记者和研究人员 There were a handful of journalists and researchers
对此感兴趣 who were interested in this stuff,
但它当时并不是世界关注的焦点 but it wasn't what was the main focus of the world.
几个月后 事情的发展就截然不同了 And in the span of a few months, that completely changed,
2016年末 特朗普当选总统 at the end of 2016, with Trump's victory.
克林顿家族 "裹尸布" 六周内新增6神秘死亡案
有阴谋论称, 凡阻碍克林顿家族成员政治之路的人, 最后都会神秘死亡。 50多人组成的受害者名单被称为"克林顿裹尸布", 又名"克林顿家族死亡名单"
我们发现 在选举日前夕的关键时刻 What we found was the core key time before Election Day,
特朗普正获得各界领袖的大力支持 他们的力挺将使特朗普如虎添翼
关于大选的虚假新闻参与度 that fake stories got way more engagement
转发量及评论量
比真实的新闻报道更高 than the real news stories about the election.
所有人 包括记者 And as soon as everybody, journalists,
政治家 研究人员一旦开始接触其冰山一角 politicians, researchers started scratching the surface,
他们的反应都是 我的天 瞧瞧这都是什么 they were like, holy crap, this is, look at what's here.
大选之后 发生了"披萨门"事件 And then, right after the election, we had Pizzagate.
披萨门: 该披萨店老板支持民主党, 是竞选团队的金主 部分民众认为其店是地下娈童集团, 为民主党内部提供服务
有个人带着步枪 走进华盛顿的一家披萨店 开枪射击 Somebody walking into a DC pizzeria with a rifle and firing it off,
我们意识到 持枪者会这么做是因为听信谣言 and realizing that that was a result of this person
消化了过多的阴谋论和错误信息 consuming conspiracies and misinformation,
我认为 这件事吓坏了很多人 I think that freaked a lot of people out.
我努力在自家餐厅 My restaurant, I try to be like,
营造出宾至如归的愉快氛围 everyone's invited, just have a good time.
打乒乓球 享受美食 Play ping-pong, eat some great food.
最喜欢这种氛围的是家庭和孩子 Families and kids are the people who like it the most
詹姆斯·阿莱方蒂斯 乒乓彗星披萨店 店主
因为他们能在店里东奔西跑 这很有趣 because it's like, it's fun, they can run around.
"乒乓彗星"是华盛顿地区的地标建筑 Comet Ping Pong is a fixture here in Washington.
在当地家喻户晓 Everyone knows this restaurant.
基思·亚历山大 《华盛顿邮报》
顾客从华盛顿的其他地区专程赶来 People come from other parts of Washington
到这里吃披萨 to have pizza here.
我们店确实会有政治圈的客人光临 We do have some politically connected people that come in here,
布赖斯·雷 乒乓彗星 经理
这种事时有发生 and that is just something that happens.
就像有线电视新闻网的新闻主播 I mean, I have CNN news anchors
已经是多年的常客了 who have been eating here for years.
乒乓彗星的意义在于 But what Comet is about is,
这是安全的地方 客人能在这里做真实的自己 this is a safe space for people to come in and be themselves.
我们为本地乐队和酷儿(非异性恋群体)乐队承办演出 We host shows for local bands, queer bands.
丹尼尔·萨珀斯坦 乒乓彗星 员工
我认为 乒乓彗星的优点之一 I think that one of the nice things about Comet
是给酷儿群体提供场地 is that there's space here for... queer folks
让他们能在此提高自我认可 to be part of the identity of the restaurant.
我举办了餐厅十周年的纪念派对 I had this party for the 10-year anniversary.
邀请了所有人 Everyone was invited,
包括美国司法部长 and we had the attorney general of the United States
国会议员 孩子们 音乐家 还有艺术家 and like, congresspeople and like, kids, and musicians and artists.
这场派对是2016年10月底举办的 And that was in the end of October 2016.
当时我看着派对场面 心里想 I looked at it one moment and I just thought,
哇 我们确实做出了点成果 wow, like, we've really created something here.
比如说 这地方很特别 Like, this place is special.
不久后 我们遭受了一年多的强烈攻击 Uh, and then quickly after that, we were slammed with this year-plus-long,
没完没了的阴谋论 endless conspiracy theory.
波德斯塔邮件门
资料来源: 维基解密
约翰·波德斯塔是希拉里·克林顿的竞选主席 John Podesta, who's Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman,
奥利弗·达西 美国有线电视新闻网
他的邮箱被盗了 黑客把邮件传到网上 his emails are hacked, and they get uploaded online.
很多阴谋论者开始在邮件里 寻找蛛丝马迹 And a lot of conspiracy theorists start crawling through them.
根据已有的邮件 And based on these emails,
他们编造了关于乒乓彗星的疯狂阴谋论 they spin up this crazy conspiracy theory about Comet Ping Pong.
特朗普的支持者开始浏览约翰·波德斯塔的邮件 People on pro-Trump forums start going through John Podesta's emails,
主题: 你们俩1月12日或13日有空一起吃晚饭吗？
有空抽一小时来吃披萨吗？或者你直接过来吧
他们看到邮件提到了披萨 and they see these references to pizza.
主题: 你是否丢失了手帕
亲爱的约翰
房地产经纪人找到了一条手帕 是你丢的吗？如果你想要的话, 他们能给你送过来。我知道你很忙, 所以如果你没有丢失手帕, 或者不想要了, 不用回复也没关系。
现在看来 这些都是稀松平常的 Now, these are pretty innocuous references.
我们要给竞选志愿者买披萨吗 Do we need to get pizza for the campaign volunteers?
威尔·萨默 每日野兽(2008年上线的美国新闻网站)
之类的话 That kind of stuff.
我们看到 披萨门第一次出现 And perhaps the first example we've ever seen
应该是在红迪网上 of the creation of Pizzagate is on a Reddit post.
红迪网: 社交新闻网站, 用户可以在上面自创内容, 作为"帖子"发布出去
乒乓彗星 - 披萨门
搞什么鬼。这就是我们生活的盛世。真是恶心。 难怪唐纳德觉得克林顿家族的人都是畜生。
有人说 大家应该研究下披萨背后的蛛丝马迹 Someone saying, I think we need to be looking at these clues for all this pizza stuff.
果然 此后事情一发不可收拾 And really, from there, that's where it took off.
上维基解密 找找那些模棱两可的关键词
他们解读了邮件里的很多词语 So inside the emails, they connect a lot of things.
"热狗" = 男孩 "披萨" = 女孩 "芝士" = 小女孩 "意面" = 小男孩 "冰淇淋" = 男妓 "胡桃" = 有色人种 "地图" = 精液 "酱料" = 狂欢会
芝士披萨缩写是CP 人们拆开分析 CP, cheese pizza. People dissect it.
他们认为芝士披萨 指的是儿童色情 They think maybe it stands for child pornography.
我创建了披萨门的超话 专门用来讨论波德斯塔泄露的邮件里隐藏的恶臭娈童集团
红迪网和4chan的用户开始相信 Various people on Reddit, sites like 4chan become convinced
主题: 回复: 希拉里4月10日披萨派对 稍后会发邀请函 约翰·波德斯塔
资料来源: 邮件
披萨就是性侵儿童的行话 that pizza is slang for, essentially, children to rape.
接着 他们发现了詹姆斯·阿莱方蒂斯和约翰·波德斯塔的邮件往来 And so then, they see the exchanges with James Alefantis and John Podesta.
你的朋友, 詹姆斯·阿莱方蒂斯
我确实给约翰·波德斯塔发过邮件 I had emailed with John Podesta
是关于在某人家里举办披萨派对 筹集资金 about hosting a pizza party fundraiser cookout at someone's house.
所以 人们开始相信 乒乓彗星有地牢 And so, people become convinced that Comet Ping Pong is like,
用以性侵儿童 this child rape dungeon in the basement.
# 披萨门
集团的幕后黑手有乔治·索罗斯 This was supported by George Soros
乔治·索罗斯 商人
约翰·波德斯塔和希拉里·克林顿 and John Podesta and Hillary Clinton
约翰·波德斯塔 希拉里·克林顿竞选经理
希拉里·克林顿 民主党总统候选人
乒乓彗星 华盛顿特区的披萨店
詹姆斯·阿莱方蒂斯 乒乓彗星店主
每个人似乎和披萨店的贩卖儿童的团伙都有关系 and like, everybody was somehow connected to this child sex trafficking ring
撒旦仪式
安东尼·韦纳
只要拨打披萨店的电话 at a pizza parlor that you could dial up,
说出正确的食物名称 你的儿童便送货到家 and say the right food words, and get your order of children.
#披萨门
克林顿领先特朗普10个百分点
选举日前几天 选情局势非常紧张 It's just days before the election and so, tensions are high.
民调: 希拉里收复失地 密歇根州领先特朗普11个百分点
希拉里·克林顿眼看着就要获胜 It certainly looked like Hillary Clinton was gonna win,
因此 特朗普的支持者变得非常狂热 and so, Trump people are very feverish,
披萨串联一切 披萨是关键 #披萨门
这事便成了爆炸性新闻 and this was just blowing up.
希拉里的杀人邪教曝光! 阿桑奇、布赖特巴特警告我们! #披萨门 #文森·福斯特
我当时想 天哪 这些人都魔怔了吗 So I said, jeez, all these people are just going so wild about it.
我想知道乒乓彗星的情况 I wonder if anything's happening at Comet.
所以我致电店主 So I called him up.
我收到了威尔·萨默的电话 I got a call from a guy named Will Sommer
他当时就职于《华盛顿城市报》 and he, at the time, was working at the Washington City Paper
他问我是否看过 and asked me if I had read about this
或者知道这个网传的阴谋论 or know about this online conspiracy theory
说我和希拉里·克林顿利用乒乓彗星 贩卖人口 that Hillary Clinton and I were human trafficking from Comet Ping Pong.
我当时的反应是一头雾水 And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.
我当时的评论是 And I make a comment like,
民众对大选感到很兴奋 everyone is really up about this election,
大家热情高涨 and passions are high,
我相信几天后阴谋论就会不攻自破 and I'm sure that it'll go away in a couple of days.
突发新闻
克林顿致电特朗普 承认败选
大选如期进行 The election happens,
万万没想到的是 大选结束后几天 and then actually what happened is in the days subsequent to the election,
这些网络攻击开始暴增 these online attacks started escalating and increasing in volume.
我们餐厅开始收到(美版)大众点评的评论 We started to get messages onto, like, our Yelp page for the restaurant.
这家店对孩子下手真是人神共愤。希望受害者能得到正义! 永远不要相信这家有酷刑室的乒乓球场。 #显而易见
评论非常诡异 脸书的帖子也是如此 Reviews that were really weird and weird Facebook things.
我点了一个芝士披萨 店家估计搞错了 送来了一个六岁的海地孩子和一个胎儿
这些人都是恋童癖 披萨吃起来有小孩血液的味道
我在照片墙发过教子的照片 I had put pictures of my godchildren on Instagram.
吉米彗星
早知道会这样 打死我也不会发 Now, obviously, I would know better than to put anything anywhere,
这些照片是从我账户里偷的 but these images were stolen from my Instagram,
他们盗走照片 二次上传 当作不法勾当的证据 taken and put up as some kind of evidence of nefarious activities going on.
我只希望你扪心自问 为什么这个男人 I just want you to ask yourself, why does this guy,
我觉得应该快三十岁了 I think he looks like he's in his late 30's,
为什么这个即将迈入中年的男人 why is this coming-on-middle-age guy
会有别人家小孩喝牛奶的照片 have a photo of a random kid drinking milk?
披萨门 如其他阴谋论一样 Pizzagate, like so many conspiracy theories,
首先在4chan论坛不断发酵 it starts to echo on 4chan.
这个网站有更极端的内容板块 There are spaces that drive more extreme content.
我会说 这个网站是 I would say 4chan is--
凯斯琳·霍尔·贾米森 《网络战争》作者
不 厕所这词太客气了 no, a bathroom may be too polite.
想想洲际公路上的休息站 Think of the rest stop on the interstate highway.
伙计们，还记得这封名为"pizza.jpg"吗？这封邮件的附件只有一张图片 他们基本上是在贩卖儿童
波德斯塔是该死的恋童癖
4chan就是肮脏的厕所 4chan is a dirty restroom.
没有厕纸供应 There's no toilet paper on the toilet roll.
洗手池长期污秽不堪 The sink has not been cleaned in months.
想象下 你在厕所墙上能看到什么好东西 And think about the kinds of things you saw on bathroom walls there.
匿名 阿莱方蒂斯与恋童产业链
注意 阿莱方蒂斯 性手链
它是互联网的产物 It builds on the Internet,
开始受到许多右翼人士的青睐 and then it starts getting picked up by various right-wing pundits.
亚历克斯·琼斯一直不遗余力地推广 You know, Alex Jones starts promoting it all the time.
InfoWars: 由亚历克斯·琼斯运营的极右翼美国阴谋论和假新闻网站
披萨门是真实事件 但问题是它有多真实 Pizzagate is real. The question is how real is it?
真相是什么 无风不起浪 What is it? Something's going on.
真相被层层掩盖 Something's being covered up.
这需要究根诘底 随你怎么说它是假新闻 It needs to be investigated. To just call it fake news...
该网站成为了披萨门肆虐之地 InfoWars becomes the Pizzagate network for a bit.
这是乒乓彗星的菜单 The menu from Comet Ping Pong.
请注意乒乓球拍的图案 Notice the symbol of the ping-pong paddles
它与联邦调查局文件里恋童的标志极其相似 and its clever resemblance to the FBI documents' symbol for ChildLove.
这次的针对性攻击从各方面入手 There were so many different entry points for this specific attack.
有人说 我贩卖或虐待儿童 I'm trafficking or abusing these children is one.
还有人说 我 希拉里·克林顿 波德斯塔斯 The other was that I or Hillary Clinton or the Podestas
绑架及贩卖儿童 were kidnapping and selling these children
恋稚男癖
恋男童癖
借此生财 to retain our immense wealth.
还有人说 因为我是同性恋 There was some that, this idea that because I'm gay,
我肯定会猥亵儿童之类的 I obviously must be molesting children or something,
这是过去对同性恋的偏见 which is a historical perspective on gayness.
我们接到了很多电话 So many of the calls we've received,
对方问 为什么你们喜欢性侵儿童 people saying, why do you like raping children?
还有人说 我知道你们都是基佬 And being like, I know you're all gay.
说得好像两者之间有关联似的 And that one is necessarily related to the other.
煽动错误信息和假新闻的 A lot of what fuels misinformation
莫莉·莱文森 乒乓彗星 发言人
很多是出于仇恨 and what we call "fake news" is hate.
同性恋者支持恋童癖
其本质是一群人对另一群体 It is essentially some group of people, either misunderstanding
披萨门, 性偏离及同性恋文化
产生误解 或想付诸暴力的感觉 or having some sort of violent feelings about another group of people.
同性恋文化
《华盛顿时报》 同性恋卖淫调查令里根、 布什等重要人物身陷囹圄
在乒乓彗星这件事上 And in the case of Comet,
那些攻击詹姆斯的人 those who decided to target James
"应召男孩"深夜探访白宫
从乒乓彗星接纳彩虹群体 found a little bit of hate and malice in the piece of Comet
同性恋
恋童癖者的话题标签
之中发泄仇恨与恶意 that is welcoming to the LGBTQ community.
我们接到越来越多的电话 More and more, we started receiving phone calls
逐渐变成了恶作剧电话 可以说 that ran the gambit of being just prank calls, I'd almost say,
对方会说 我想要一个 where people were like, can I get a--
特制的披萨 名字都很荒谬 some kind of special pizza, some ridiculous name--
类似恋童癖之间的黑话 something that meant to them something about pedophilia.
甚至是死亡威胁的暗语 It was code words to just straight-up death threats.
他们说 我要杀了你们 People saying, gonna kill you,
或是 我们知道你们干的好事 我们会阻止你的 or we know what you're doing and we're gonna stop it,
你们不得好死 and you're all gonna die.
我们知道你家地址 我们会来店里 We know where you live. We are coming to the restaurant.
我们会追杀你 We're coming to get you.
你最好自我了结 You know, you need to kill yourself.
有一个令我印象很深 对方说 There was a specific one where someone said,
我会带着机关枪去你店里 I'm gonna come to your restaurant with a machine gun
杀死所有人 一个不留 and kill everyone inside, and like,
掏空你的五脏六腑 看你死在地上 之类的 cut your guts out and watch you die on the floor or whatever.
这令人不寒而栗 I was like, this is scary.
我每晚都会上网 What I was doing every single night was going online
浏览红迪网和4chan论坛 and checking Reddit, checking 4chan.
红迪网有一个新的子话题 Reddit had a new subreddit
是专门为披萨门建立的 that had been started specifically for Pizzagate.
一周之内 It went from, within a week,
它的粉丝从零增长到两万两千人 zero followers to 22,000 people who were subscribed to it,
任何时刻都有一千五百名的活跃粉丝 1,500 of which were active at any given point,
而这个数字也在不断增长 growing and growing and growing and growing.
就算他们一天只花五分钟 And even if they only spend five minutes a day
来破坏我的生活 22000人 trying to destroy my life, 22,000 people
五分钟的时间加起来 have more five minutes a day
比我一天24小时还多 than I have 24 hours in my day.
就是这里 就是这里 大家 There it is. There it is, guys.
我们打算悄悄潜入 So we're, we're gonna go in, we're gonna infiltrate
杰克 波索比克 "另类右翼"阴谋论者
另类右翼是持有极端保守或反对变革观点的意识形态组织
乒乓彗星披萨店 Comet Pizza.
我接到电话说 I got a phone call from someone who said,
我对你们没有恶意 hey, I just want to let you know that I'm a friend of yours,
有个名叫杰克·波索比克的人 and a guy named Jack Posobiec is in there,
在那里拍摄 filming you right now.
我 我关掉了 I-I turned it off.
我知道 你可能觉得 I-I understand that, to you,
这是个游戏 this is maybe like a game.
但我和我的员工 But considering that I myself and my staff
-收到了死亡威胁 -这不是游戏 -receive death threats-- -It's not a game.
-什么都不是 It's not anything.
你是不是正在读 Are you, are you reading these things
上面那些人写的东西 that people are writing?
我又不能控制大家在网上的言论 I can't control what somebody posts on the Internet.
我看到红迪网上有帖子说 I read several posts on Reddit that said
我受够了 I've had enough of this.
我三个小时后没有回来的话 If I don't post back here in three hours,
多少是死于非命了 it's because I've been killed.
我带上猎枪要去彗星披萨店了 I'm grabbing my shotgun and going into Comet.
我们真的很害怕 We were in real deep fear,
就 特别害怕 like, serious fear.
这些威胁实在太暴力了 让我觉得 These threats were so violent that I, I sort of, like,
有什么事情要发生了 knew something would happen.
我常和你们说 我们有责任
保护弱小
替天行道
埃德加·麦迪森·韦尔奇从 So it culminates with Edgar Maddison Welch
北卡罗莱纳开车去那里 driving up from North Carolina.
他是那个圈子里的人 He's one of the people who's been consuming all this stuff,
他相信乒乓彗星餐厅地下室 and he's become convinced that there really is a child rape dungeon
真的有儿童强奸地牢 in the basement of Comet Ping Pong.
他想去救那些孩子 He wanted to come up here and save these children.
他是个父亲 有两个女儿 He's a father himself. He had two young daughters.
他是InfoWars的忠实粉丝之一 He was a classic InfoWars listener, follower.
人们希望我调查这件事 我可能需要请一个星期假 You know, people want me to look into it. I may just have to take off a week
调查这件事 去实地考察 and just only research this and actually go to where these places are and stuff.
我正打算 飞去那儿 In fact, I'm looking at... getting on a plane.
我不能口说无凭 I can't just say something and not see it for myself.
他们去了披萨店 到处都是邪恶的艺术 They go to these pizza places, there's like, satanic art everywhere.
部分宣传是 走出去 Part of the pitch is, get out there
帮助人们寻找真相 and help us unearth the truth.
伊丽莎白·威廉姆森 纽约时报
这使很多人变成了义警 It turns people into a type of vigilante
他们去寻找他们所谓的正义 in which they're out there seeking what they think is justice.
在披萨门事件中 那个人让孩子们处于危险 In the case of Pizzagate, a guy puts children in danger
因为他以为自己是在救他们 because he thinks he's rescuing children.
很多家庭在我们这里吃饭 We had this restaurant filled with families eating,
星期日下午 埃德加·麦迪森·韦尔奇 Sunday afternoon, and Edgar Maddison Welch
带着上了膛的AR-15突击步枪 从前门进来 walks in this front door with a loaded AR-15 assault rifle,
就拿在手上 fully exposed,
后来发现他还带了手枪和刀 also with, like, a handgun and a knife, it turned out,
一直往餐厅里走 and like, walks through this restaurant.
我的小员工们在网上受过攻击 My young staff, who had been under online attack,
他们立刻注意到了他 they immediately see him,
叫了警察 call the police and...
然后对一桌又一桌说 and go, like, table-to-table,
他们得离开 telling each table that they need to go,
就是离开这栋大楼 like leave the building, and...
每一桌 So each table...
顾客们都像这样 噢 没事 我们很好 ...the customers are like, oh, no, we're fine.
我们就在这儿帮你 Like, we're here to support you.
没事 无论发生什么我们吃我们的就对了 It's okay, like... we'll just keep eating or whatever.
而那些孩子们则说 你们不明白 有个人持枪进来了 And these kids are like, no, you don't understand, there's a guy here with a gun.
所以警察疏散人们 So they evacuate the building.
这不是开玩笑的 快离开 Policewoman: This isn't a joke! Get out of the block!
警察封锁了街道 Police have shut down the street,
防暴特种部队封锁了大楼和街道 and riot, SWAT teams are closing the building and the street,
放任那个持枪的人搜查餐厅 and leaves this gunman alone to search the restaurant or do whatever he's gonna do.
犯罪现场照片
他做的第一件事 The first thing that he did was immediately
就是径直走到店的后面 walk towards the back room.
我不知道他认为会在这里找到什么 I'm not sure what he thought he was gonna find back here,
但我觉得他认为希拉里·克林顿 but I think that he thought that this was the place
犯罪现场照片
在这里 where Hillary Clinton would be.
或者他会找到约翰 波德斯塔 Or he was gonna walk back there and find John Podesta
或者乔治·索罗斯这样的人 or George Soros or someone.
他把东西从墙上撕下来 想要撬开舞台 Pulling things off of the wall, trying to pry apart the stage,
掀掉乒乓球桌 flipping ping-pong tables over.
他想把挡住自己视线的东西 He was trying to break anything that he thought
都清掉 was obscuring his view.
他来到这里 But he came over here,
看到整个餐厅唯一锁了的门 to the only locked door in the entire restaurant,
犯罪现场照片
其实是员工的衣橱 which is our employee closet.
他对门开枪 He shot through the door,
但除了一片脏乱 which is a pretty dirty
却没有发现想象中的可怕地牢 but innocuous employee closet,
只是装满了我们的衣服 um, houses our coats.
他发现没有孩子在这里 Realized there were no children being held here,
从餐厅出来 他把手举起来 came out of the restaurant, came out with his hands up,
走到一群警察前 to a sea of police.
-举起手来 举起来 -那个人现在出来了 -Hands! Hands! -We got a guy coming out right now.
站起来 Stand up!
-我们看到那个白人男性目标 -举起手来 -We got a white male subject... -Hands up--
从餐厅举着手出来 ...coming out of the location, hands in the air.
大家不要动 不要动 Don't nobody move! Don't nobody move!
原地待命 让他自己过来 Stay where you are! Bring him towards you!
我能搞定他 迈克 继续走 走到这里来 I got him, Mike. Keep going! Keep coming to my voice!
不要转过来 停 停 Do not turn around! Stop, stop!
双膝跪地 Get down on your knees!
趴到地上 趴下 Get on the ground! Lay prone on the ground!
你在那工作吗 Sir, do you work there?
不是
有谁在里面吗 Who else is at the location right now?
没人了
-没有 -你在那里做什么 -Nobody else? -What were you doing in the location?
确认里面有没有人
确认里面有没有人是什么意思
恋童癖事件
什么 Regarding what?
恋童癖事件
披萨门 他在说披萨门
这可能会导致很糟糕的事发生 This could have been a lot worse.
有人可能中枪 Someone could have gotten shot.
什么事儿都可能发生 Anything could have happened here.
没有人 这件事儿 So no one-- This was something that
就算最有经验的法制记者 even some of the most seasoned crime reporters
都没有见过的 had never seen before:
那个人带着武器来 That someone came in armed for battle,
打算来场自杀式袭击 came in on a suicide mission,
知道他要去蹲监狱 either knowing he was going to jail
或者在这里结束生命 or might end up dead,
但还是愿意这么做 but was willing to do that
因为那个虚假的 错误的新闻报道误导了他 based off of fake, erroneous news stories.
今天"假新闻"一词已经实现了武器化 Today, the term "fake news" has become totally weaponized
被滥用于毫无价值的点上 and misused to the point that I think it's kind of meaningless.
自从2017年1月 We saw back in January 2017,
克莱尔·瓦尔德 第一稿新闻, 虚假信息专家
特朗普总统在新闻发布会上 when President Trump stood up at the news conference
叫板CNN 把它称作"假新闻" and called out CNN and called it fake news.
从那以后 "假新闻"一词 From there, we started to see the term kind of
就被玩坏了 just fall apart in terms of use.
特朗普称CNN为"假新闻"
总统先生 我们能不能提个问题 Mr. President-elect, can you give us a question?
-不要无理 -你在攻击我们 能不能回答我们个问题 -Don't be rude. -You're attacking us. Can you give us a question?
不要 不 我不给你机会 Don't be ru-- No, I'm not gonna give you a question.
-不回答你的问题 -你能明确说明 -I'm not gonna give you a question. -Can you state categorically--
-你们是假新闻 -先生 -You are fake news. -Sir--
我们现在的 Where we're at right now is
假新闻已经变成了 fake news has most effectively become
唐纳德·特朗普定义的那样 what Donald Trump has defined it as,
即批判他的媒体 which is media that's critical of him.
如果你们想要让假新闻媒体 If you want the fake news media
来彻查此事(通俄门) to finally investigate...
他谈到假新闻 When he talks about fake news,
这些人给出了最热烈的掌声 that is one of the biggest applause lines that he gets at these rallies.
通常在那种情况下 全场 Usually at that point, that's when the whole crowd
帕特里克·斯维泰克 德克萨斯论坛报
会转向媒体 发出嘘声 turns to the media pen and boos.
作为一名记者 当听到那些 As a journalist, obviously, it's disappointing
帕特里克·斯维泰克 德克萨斯论坛报
针对我们报道的刻薄言语时 会很难过 to see that kind of vitriol directed at the press.
没事 我也不喜欢他们 Don't worry, I don't like them either, okay?
CNN烂透了 CNN烂透了
人们唾弃CNN CNN is in the dumper.
它等于假新闻 It's become synonymous with fake news.
没有人相信它 Nobody believes it anymore.
我们希望政客们 呃 We expect politicians to be, uh,
约翰·坎贝尔 特朗普支持者
根据情况多少吐露点真相 fast and loose with the truth, depending on the day.
我们能理解 他是个商人 We know that. It's a car salesman.
但我们希望记者们 新闻人能够说出真相 But we expect journalists, newsmen to tell the truth.
那才是你们该 你们应该报道事实 That's what y'all-- You're just supposed to report the facts.
不 我不会给奥巴马投票 And, uh, no, I didn't vote for Obama.
他没有帮助我这样 Give me one thing he did to help me as a Texan,
已婚的异性恋德克萨斯人 heterosexual, a married man.
他减少我的税收了吗 没有 Did he cut-- lower my taxes? Nope.
他让我更自由了吗 没有 Did he increase my freedoms? Nope.
他让我金发碧眼的白人孩子 Did he help my white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed kid
上大学了吗 没有 go to college? Nope.
而特朗普正在保护我的文化不受影响 Donald Trump's trying to stop my culture down here from changing.
看看周围 Look around.
他的"民粹主义"起作用了 His style of populism is working.
民粹主义的基本理论包括：极端强调平民群众的价值和理想, 把平民化和大众化作为所有政治运动和政治制度合法性的最终来源； 依靠平民大众对社会进行激进改革，并把普通群众当作政治改革的唯一决定性力量；
我们相信他 We're gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.
为什么 因为他帮助了我们 Why? Because he's given us results.
但你们都不报道这个 But y'all don't report that.
媒体是公众的敌人 The media is the public enemy.
给你看看我今晚买的这件 我非常喜欢 Let me show you the one I really like I bought tonight.
这说明了一切 This sums it up.
这钱花得值 That is money well spent right there.
因为它是假新闻 他们没有报道事实 Because it's fake news, they don't report the truth.
真相就是一切 Truth's reality.
你们还想开下去的话 就报道事实 You want to start living right, report the truth.
我们就这点要求 That's all we ask for.
谢谢 Thank you.
我觉得"假新闻"这个词政治化了 Well, I think "fake news" has become a very politicized term
它被用来攻击保守派 that is being used to censor conservatives.
杰罗姆·科西 政客和作家
不用说 因为假新闻出现在 Uh, evidently, because it's published
纽约时报 人们又信任它 in the New York Times, you believe it.
如果你也信任它 你就会相信 If you do that, you're believing either
政府 他们的宣传 government, uh, propaganda
或者主流媒体给出的真相 or mainstream media-determined truth.
可是《纽约时报》的报道不等于真相 And just because the New York Times published it, doesn't mean it's true.
杰罗姆·科西是共和党的长聘职员 Jerome CorsI's this longtime Republican operative,
是这场网络和媒体诽谤运动的始作俑者之一 and really, one of the modern creators of this Internet and media-fueled smear campaign.
在2004年的选举时 他与别人合作写了本书 In the 2004 election, he cowrote this book
内容是约翰·克里在快艇上的行为 about John Kerry's behavior on this swiftboat,
他向人们传递 promoting that idea that John Kerry,
这位越南战争英雄 who was this Vietnam war hero,
其实是个大懦夫 was actually like this big coward,
这是个没有依据的声明 you know, promoting this really baseless claim.
所以 自从2004年后 "快艇"这个词 So now, to swiftboat someone, since 2004,
被用于指代为了摧毁某人 means to create a lie and propagate it
而故意造谣抹黑的意思 in the idea that it's gonna torpedo them,
杰罗姆·科西就是这个词义的创造者 and Jerome Corsi was the creator of that.
回顾2008 2009年 杰罗姆·科西大概是 Cut to 2008, 2009, Jerome Corsi is probably
奥巴马出生地阴谋论的核心人物 the most prominent face of the "birther" conspiracy theory,
这个理论声称奥巴马是在肯尼亚出生的 so the idea that Barack Obama was born in Kenya.
[美国宪法规定总统需是美国天生公民 若奥巴马确实出生于肯尼亚 那他将失去总统竞选资格]
好像过去一 二十年中 所有的大型阴谋论 It's like all of the giant conspiracy theories
杰罗姆·科西都掺了一脚 of the past decade or two, Jerome Corsi has jumped on,
他或是制造 或是参与推动了这些阴谋论的扩散 and either he created them or he really got into pushing them.
网络的好处是 And what's so nice about this is just with a
只要你有一个笔记本 一个很简单的相机 laptop computer, a fairly simple camera,
任何一个普通人都可以发表自己的看法并且被别人听见 it gives the average person the opportunity to establish a voice and to be heard.
我才不会去看CNN的新闻然后说 我也想写新闻 I didn't look at CNN and say, I want to do that.
杰森·顾德曼 "来自群众的真相"油管主
我不会去福克斯然后说 您好这是我的简历 I didn't go to Fox News and say, here's my résumé,
我想穿上西装追随塔克·卡尔松(一档政治脱口秀主持人) I want to put on a suit and after Tucker Carlson,
我想坐在沙发上 读那些我写的新闻 I want to sit there and read my news.
我才不会说那些话 我也不会去纽约时报 I didn't say that. I didn't go to the New York Times
说我想为你们写稿 and say, I want to write stories for you.
我看着那些传统媒体 我只想说 I looked at all of those things and I said,
你们都他妈糟透了 you guys are all fucked up.
那些被你称为新闻的东西 我认为糟透了 Whatever it is that you think is journalism, I think is fucked up.
我告诉你我要做什么 So this is how I'm gonna do it.
清醒点吧你们 Wake up, everyone.
反对政府公告来自群众来源的真相
如果你还在转发新闻周刊 If you are forwarding articles from Newsweek
......新闻周刊.......
反民主的垃圾媒体
和纽约时报的报道 from the New York Times,
政治宣传(名词)：
指带有偏见或误导性质的信息 用于推动或宣传政治事业或观点
那你就参与到了他们的欺骗行为中 you have become a zombie propagandist.
克林顿的助手波德斯 塔将特朗普团队与俄罗斯黑客联系在一起
我觉得有意思的是 尽管我只是进行一些调查 I find it intriguing that even investigating it,
油管博主 杰森·古德曼
提出一些质疑 审视他们拿出的所谓证据 questioning it, becoming a forensic examiner
我却被嘲笑 of evidence, you get ridiculed.
我被打成阴谋论者 You are a conspiracy theorist.
你可以否认人们对于某一话题的各种过度解读 You can disagree on all sorts of interpretations about a particular subject,
尤查·本科勒 哈佛大学伯克曼克莱恩互联网及社会研究中心
但如果那个话题本身就是杜撰的 你就很难反驳了 but not when there's falsehood.
当我们研究假新闻和虚假信息的时候 When we study false news and disinformation,
有一种理论上的解释称 what we see repeatedly
我们通常看到的虚假信息 is things that, in theory, could be just interpretation,
是由一些有明显纰漏的故事片段精心组合成的 get made up of discrete bits of narrative that are distinctly false.
很明显 假新闻的背后隐藏着别有用心的人 It's very clear that what you have here
他们尽一切努力散布他们精心编造的谣言 is a propagandist effort to try to achieve a result.
举个例子 塞斯·里奇的案子 So for example, the Seth Rich case.
邻里守望区
邻里守望指邻居间互相帮助 守望社区安全 看到可能的不安全因素及时报警
塞斯·里奇是个年轻小伙子 Seth Rich was a young guy.
他在民主党全国委员会工作 He's working for the Democratic National Committee,
[民主党全国委员会简称DNC 是美国民主党的管理机构]
他被谋杀了 and he's killed,
布卢明代尔社区 华盛顿
在2016年的7月 in July of 2016.
塞斯·里奇谋杀案现场
华盛顿警方称 Police in Washington have said it appears to have been
这起案件看上去似乎是一次拙劣的武装抢劫 但他们不能完全确定 a botched armed robbery, but they don't know for sure what happened.
达维德·福克门弗利克 美国国家公共电台
基斯·亚历山大 华盛顿邮报
那段时间 这个街区 There were a lot of robberies
发生过很多次抢劫 in this neighborhood around that time.
人们开始猜测 他遇到的真的是抢劫吗 People were speculating, well, what kind of a robbery was it?
他的钱包没有被拿走 Because his wallet was still on him,
他的表也还在那儿 his watch was still there.
其实 一旦抢劫犯开了枪 就会引起注意 But when a gun goes off, that's gonna draw attention.
所以塞斯遇到的抢劫犯不会久留 So his assailant's not gonna stick around
也来不及拿走他身上的贵重物品 他们必须赶快逃跑 and try to get those valuables. They're gonna take off.
这就是这件案子的经过 And that's what happened in this case.
很早以前 他就想去做一些 Very early on, he wanted to do stuff
亚伦·里奇 塞斯的哥哥
能让这个社会更好的事情 that was involved in trying to make things better.
我比他大六岁半 There was six and a half years between us.
他是一个非常 Hundred percent, he was very much,
就那种讨人厌的弟弟 you know, the annoying little brother.
但随着我们长大 随着我们到了人生中的相同阶段 Then as we got older, we got a lot closer
我们变得亲密了起来 just when we both got to the same spot in life.
如果他遇到了难题 他会和我聊聊 If he had problems, he'd talk to me.
如果我遇到了 我也会找他聊天 If I had problems, I'd talk to him.
我想说的是 我们是彼此的亲密伙伴 So, I mean, we were each other's best friends
我们相互支持 and, you know, always there for each other.
不管是对我还是对他的朋友来说 He was the person that I knew I could always count on,
他都是一个值得依靠的人 and he was that not just to me but also to his friends.
他的幽默感十足 His over-the-top sense of humor.
如果你心情不好 不管是什么原因 If you were having a bad day, no matter what,
如果他想逗你笑 if it became his mission to make you have a good day,
他总是能成功 just give in now.
我很早就度假回来了 I had come back early from a vacation,
之后我们一直在玩电话追逐游戏 and we had been playing phone tag since I had got back.
[电话追逐：两人依次给对方电话留言 但不直接通电话 因像捉迷藏而称电话追逐]
我很后悔那时候没有和他好好通电话 Obviously, that is something that I realize I would regret.
第二天早上 妈妈给我打电话 The next morning, my mom called me.
我记得她告诉我 I remember her telling me that, um...
塞斯昨晚被枪杀了 uh, he had been shot and killed late in the night.
我当时听到那个消息 I remember, you know, collapsing on the floor
就倒在了我家的地板上 of our townhome at the time,
完全不愿意相信 um, just in sheer disbelief.
在2016年夏天 In the political environment that existed
当时的政治环境下 in the summer of 2016,
一位DNC职员被谋杀 having a DNC staffer that was murdered,
迈克·戈特利布 亚伦·里奇的律师
而且是被某一群人谋杀 to a certain group of people,
人们很难相信这只是一个巧合 just could not have been a coincidence.
有人黑进了DNC的电脑 Somebody hacked into the DNC computer,
维基解密近期公开了其中一些邮件 and WikiLeaks just recently published
部分泄露的邮件中显示 a bunch of these emails, and there are a number
在民主党全国委员会中 of emails in which senior officials
有一些高级官员 of the Democratic National Committee
在暗中排挤柏尼·桑德斯 can be seen conspiring against Bernie Sanders.
柏尼·桑德斯是希拉里当时的党内竞争者 DNC本应作为中立机构 但泄露出的邮件显示一些高级官员暗中支持希拉里并排挤桑德斯
塞斯·里奇的死恰巧发生在 Seth Rich's murder follows the leak of emails
民主党邮件泄露门之后 from the Democratic Party.
民主党总部
因此他的死很快就被与泄露联系起来 And his death very quickly is linked to the leak.
持有这种想法的人称 The idea is that Seth Rich himself was somehow
塞斯·里奇与维基解密取得了联系 in contact with WikiLeaks,
他很不满希拉里克林顿掌控了民主党 objected to Hillary Clinton's assertion of control over the Democratic Party.
他很愤怒 于是泄露了邮件 He was outraged and released these emails,
被杀的DNC职员塞斯·里奇曾把邮件泄露给了维基解密？
之后希拉里谋杀了他 and Hillary Clinton somehow had Seth Rich murdered.
克林顿的恐怖统治与谋杀嫌疑
我先声明 这种猜测没有任何依据 I want to be clear, this is baseless.
但毫无疑问的是 维基解密的朱利安·阿桑奇 But certainly, Julian Assange of WikiLeaks
在为这种猜测添油加醋 stoked that, uh, speculation.
我们的线人为了给我们提供线索 Our whistleblower has gone to significant efforts
泄露者朱利安·阿桑奇来自@维基百科 证实塞思·里奇和DNC邮件泄露有关@hillaryclinton. 看看这个@mmfa
付出了巨大的努力 而且冒着巨大的风险 to get us material, and often very significant risks.
他是个27岁的DNC职员 He's a 27-year-old that works for the DNC,
被谋杀 后背中枪 who was shot in the back, murdered.
我相信那只是抢劫 不是吗 That was just a robbery, I believe, wasn't it?
- 不 现在没有下结论 - 他是你的线人之一吗 -No, there's no finding -Was he one of your sources, then?
- 我们不会说我们的线人是谁 - 那你为什么提出那种暗示 -We don't comment on who our sources are-- -Then why make the suggestion?
这种说法对朱利安·阿桑奇来说很有利 Julian Assange, it's convenient for him
因为这意味着他不用背上通俄的黑锅了 because it means he's not kind of a patsy for the Russian government.
[有言论称维基解密是由俄罗斯支持情报机构]
机密资料是由一个勇敢的泄密者给他的 It means, you know, there was this brave whistleblower who gave him the stuff.
维基解密
通知：维基解密决定悬赏20000美元 寻找杀害DNC员工塞斯·里奇凶手的线索
朱利安·阿桑奇是这个事件的催化剂 Julian Assange was the catalyst.
之后在4chan和Reddit And then, online, on websites and message boards
甚至是推特上 这个话题爆了 like 4chan or Reddit, even Twitter, it blew up.
塞斯·里奇的事现在真的变得可疑了 The Seth Rich thing is really getting suspicious now.
这是一次暗杀 This was an assassination.
这个小伙子是因为政治原因被谋杀的 This kid was murdered for political reasons.
我认为这是DNC和克林顿犯罪团体 I think they want to do damage control
为了控制风险而策划的谋杀 with the DNC and the Clinton Crime Unit.
这次谋杀 This is exactly the sort of killing
是克林顿夫妇策划的 you would expect from the Clintons.
这个人他妈是被谋杀的 The guy got fucking murdered
因为他向维基解密泄密了 after he leaked information to WikiLeaks.
一直有传言 There have been stories in which
美国的一部分激进分子 activists in the United States
斯科特·肖恩 纽约时报
和俄罗斯联手造谣 join forces with the Russians to push the same stories.
塞斯·里奇的事情可能是其中 And you know, the Seth Rich story
俄罗斯驻英国大使馆
最好的一个例子 is probably the leading example of that.
维基解密的线人塞思·里奇 在美国被杀了 但是主流媒体仍在指责是俄罗斯黑客所为
谁杀了 塞思·里奇
他们都急着否认 They were both eager to deny
黑进了DNC电脑的人 that the Russians were behind the hacking
是俄罗斯人 of the Democratic National Committee.
塞斯的权限很高 Seth had access to a lot of the IT.
杰克·伯克曼 政治家
他有权限 他能接触很多东西 I mean, he had the access. He had a lot of stuff.
问题是 我们不知道他用那些做了什么 The question is, we don't know what he did with it.
坦白说 我们不知道塞斯是好人还是坏人 Frankly, we don't know if Seth was a good guy or a bad guy.
我们不知道他是不是泄密者 We don't know if he was a leaker.
我们认为他是泄密者 我们只是不确定 Um, we think he was a leaker. We just don't know.
还有很多无法解释的问题 There's so many unanswered questions.
杰克·伯克曼是紧揪这场悲剧不放的政治家之一 Jack Burkman is one of the premier hucksters who has latched onto this tragedy.
来这看看 这里是办公室 We'll show you in here. Here's the office over here.
这就是我们的神经中枢了 This is, this is it. This is the nerve center, man.
我们下楼吧 So we'll come down here.
这是狗狗的房间 This is the doggy's room
假新闻是一个武器 Fake news is a weapon,
我们也曾试过利用假新闻 and, uh, we've even tried to use fake news.
假新闻是推动故事的好途径 Fake news is a good way to drive a story.
你建立一个网站 在网站上发布故事 You know, you put up a site
而不是在纽约1台 纽约2台上讲述 instead of New York 1, New York 2.
人们会相信你 他们会转载你的故事 And people believe it, and they reprint it,
然后故事就被传播开了 and it gets reprinted.
这是个宣传故事的有效办法 你知道吗 It can be an effective tool in driving a story, you know?
大家都在用 这变成了舆论战的武器 People use it. It's become a tool of war.
有点像第一次世界大战中的化学武器 It's like, uh, it's World War I and its chemical weapons.
[一战中 德国首先使用了化学武器 之后英法纷纷相仿使用 造成了大量伤亡]
大家都在用 所以你也得用 People are using them, so you use them.
你懂吧 You know?
这只是个类比 That's how I'd-- that might be the analogy.
杰克·伯克曼是一个华盛顿的说客 Jack Burkman, who's a Washington lobbyist,
他在华盛顿发表过一些富有传奇色彩的新闻稿 he sends out some legendary press releases in Washington.
记者们常说 你看杰克·伯克曼的最新发言了吗 Reporters are always saying, did you see the latest Jack Burkman press release?
因为它们都太荒谬了 Because they're so absurd.
他曾经提出过一些非常莫名其妙的提案 In the past, has attached himself to other dubious causes,
其中包括他试图禁止同性恋球员参加职业橄榄球联盟 including, he tried to get gay players banned from the NFL.
关于这个事件有四个理论 第一个是警方的声明 There are four theories: One is what the police say.
他们说是街头暴徒干的 It was done in the street, street thugs.
第二个 是俄罗斯人干的 B, the Russians did it.
第三 希拉里和民主党人干的 C, Hillary and the Democrats did it.
第四是其他人干的 D is kind of everything else.
我们自行进行了调查 We're conducting our own investigation.
他做了很多疯狂的事情 He's doing all these crazy things.
比如 他情景再现了这次谋杀 Like, he's doing a reenactment of the murder.
情景再现
他召集了一些乔治华盛顿大学的本科生 He teams up with some undergraduate students at George Washington University,
他们提出塞斯的死 最合理的解释 and they come up with the idea that the most obvious explanation
是一帮突击队杀了他 我想说 这太荒谬了 for Seth Rich's death is that a hit squad killed him. I mean, it's absurd.
你面对的是一个死了的DNC职员 他无法为自己辩解 You have a dead DNC staffer that can't defend himself.
所以这是个发表声明的好机会 并且可以利用这些声明 It's a good opportunity to make statements and, you know, try to use them.
当我们对媒体进行关键词分析时 And when we ran sentence analyses of the media,
你可以看到有关塞斯·里奇的报道 you really see how Seth Rich pops up
在热度分析图的右边形成了一些峰值 as an interference pattern on the right,
一天中提及塞斯·里奇的句子
当其他人都在谈论俄罗斯与弹劾时 when everybody else is talking Russia and impeachment.
穆勒被任命为俄罗斯调查特别顾问
DNC的这次泄露是从内部泄露的 DNC leaks came from the inside.
根本不是什么黑客 It wasn't hackers from the outside at all.
朱利安·阿桑奇明确否认 And of course, Julian Assange has specifically denied
杰森·古德曼 "来自群众的真相"油管主
杰罗姆·科西 政府工作人员 作家
从俄罗斯人那里收到过任何消息 receiving any information from the Russians.
没错 Precisely.
我认为所有这些关于俄罗斯的故事 This whole Russian collusion narrative
只是荒谬的虚构 which is, I think, actually quite a foolish narrative,
邮件不是俄罗斯人黑进DNC然后泄露的 that the emails were stolen by Russia from the DNC,
那些是没有被证明的假设 these are premises that have not been validated.
但左翼的人却把那些故事当做真的 Yet the left runs with them as if they were gospel truth.
到了一月份 整个情报机构 We know that by January, you had the entire
都声明这次事件是俄罗斯人干的 intelligence community on board, saying that it was the Russians.
穆勒在起诉书里 You know that the Mueller indictments
[穆勒是调查俄罗斯是否干涉2016年美国总统大选的特别检察官]
也非常准确地指出 have very specifically indicted
俄罗斯应该为网上的引战帖 both Russians responsible for the trolls
和黑客攻击事件负责 and Russians responsible for the hacking.
但人们说我们不能百分之一百保证是俄罗斯人干的 And when people say, well, we don't absolutely know with certainty.
那他们到底想要什么 难道是在圣彼得堡 What do they want? Do they want to be in St. Petersburg,
看着俄罗斯人做这件事吗 watching every Russian troll engaging in every act?
有一些证据是不需要亲眼所见的 I mean, there are levels of proof that no reasonable person would ask for.
就是俄罗斯人干的 It was the Russians.
华尔街日报 穆勒·普罗布指控12名俄罗斯人 涉嫌黑入DNC及克林顿竞选营
你在网络上看到一些推测 The speculation that you saw online
大抵出自一些诸如Gateway Pundit新闻博客 was given fuel by places like Gateway Pundit,
和琼斯的InfoWars的网站 InfoWars, Alex Jones,
但福克斯新闻却也会播送 but you also see it pop up on Fox News.
福克斯新闻最新消息称 Newswoman: Back with a Fox News alert:
上图DNC员工谋杀案一事 a brand-new bombshell in the murder
有新的反转 of that guy right there, a DNC staffer.
日前某调查员宣称 An investigator now says Seth Rich
塞斯·里奇生前与维基解密保持着密切联系 was in contact with WikiLeaks.
福克斯新闻在网络上 Benkler: Fox News, on the website,
发文称 publishes a story
有证据表明 that there's new evidence that Seth Rich
DNC职员塞斯·里奇曾与维基解密有过联系
塞斯·里奇是消息泄露之源 was, in fact, the source of the leaks.
然后你会发现 And what you see is the whole network,
从华盛顿当地小报到主流媒体 from the local affiliate in DC through the main cable channel,
谋杀之谜
整个网络系统都在播报此事 mobilized around this story.
最新证据表明DNC27岁的前员工 Newly discovered evidence shows that the 27-year-old,
谋杀之谜
实际上一直与维基解密互送消息 former DNC employee was, in fact, communicating with WikiLeaks.
我们可以回溯 Benkler: And we can really trace
一个从Reddit滋生的谣言 how a rumor that starts on Reddit
是如何最终被汉尼提秀所播报的 ultimately makes its way to Hannity,
你甚至可以一步一步 and you can just literally follow,
不出差错地从开始追溯到最后 from the first to the last, this propaganda pipeline.
我们每天都在关注 俄罗斯人 另类右翼分子 We see the Russians. We see the alt-right activists.
以及一些充斥着标题党的商业网站 We see the commercial clickbait sites.
然后你就会发现 And then you have, at the very top
一些造谣者 a set of propagandists
他们的经济利益和政治利益是挂钩的 whose commercial interest and political interest
这促使他们去打探各种小道消息 are aligned to go out, look for all these stories,
并想尽办法将这些消息传达给主流媒体 and bring them to the mainstream of Fox News.
如果塞斯·里奇真的向维基解密泄露一些 If it was true that Seth Rich gave WikiLeaks
DNC的邮件内容 the DNC emails, wouldn't that blow
这不是暴露出那些推波助澜的媒体 the whole Russia collusion narrative that the media
是和俄罗斯沆瀣一气的吗 has been pushing out of the water?
福克斯的确做了一些不错的报道 I mean, Fox does some good reporting.
亚当·高曼 纽约时报
那些记者都很敬业 值得尊重 There are good, honorable reporters there that do good reporting,
但肖·汉尼提却是总统顾问的身份啊 but Sean Hannity is essentially a consultant for the president.
顺便一提 后面的那些媒体都在制造假新闻 By the way, all those people in the back are fake news.
他向广大观众 Spewing the president's views
散播总统的观点和意图 to his huge audience on Fox,
而且这很有欺骗性 and it's just like hook, line, and sinker.
亚当·高曼 纽约时报
大家都认为汉尼提所说的一定是真相 If Sean Hannity says it, it must be true.
当然 正因为福克斯新闻处在人们关注的焦点 And, of course, Fox News is in the attention business,
才会滋生一些像我们见到的 and so, there's a sort of fake news laundering
大卫·拉泽 东北大学
这种假新闻 that is occurring.
迄今为止 没有任何新的证据 To date, there has been no "new evidence"
梅丽尔·科南特·格娃斯基 亚伦·里奇的律师
浮出水面 以至于可以推翻 that has come out that would justify
最初被播报的事件 the original story in the first place,
那就更不必说这些层出不穷的流言蜚语了 let alone this constant resurgence.
这些话不是随风即逝 It's not just words,
你不只是在推送消息 and you're not just pushing something,
这些东西对人有实实在在的影响 like, you're having real effects on real people.
光是走出家人被谋杀的阴影中就够难了 It's hard enough to process the thought of a family member being murdered.
但很快 事情演变成 But it very quickly went to,
我拿了维基解密的钱 you know, that I took money from WikiLeaks,
亚伦·里奇和塞思·里奇共同参与了DNC泄密 那家人知道是怎么回事. 是时候还美国一个真相了
我和敌对国情报部门 that I'm cooperating with a hostile
暗中合作 foreign intelligence service.
这简直就是空穴来风 Where is this even coming from?
指控我参与了这些事情 Being directly accused of being involved in any of this,
塞思·里奇的哥哥 在为提供网络防御的政府承包商工作
把我原本就因为各种阴谋论 just turns our world completely upside down,
而支离破碎的世界 that was already turned upside down
弄得面目全非 from the rest of the conspiracies.
我还是不能平静地接受 I still have not been able to sit there and really
他已经不在了的事实 properly grieve the fact that he's not there.
有很多次我都想拿起电话 The number of times I've wanted to pick up my phone
向别人倾诉我所处的这荒唐处境 and describe this absolute ridiculous situation that's going on,
换作从前我会向我的弟弟倾诉 the person I would call would be my brother.
在里奇家人和记者强烈反对下 After extraordinary backlash from journalists
福克斯撤回了这篇文章 and especially the Rich family, Fox withdrew its story.
有关塞斯·里奇报道的声明
他们宣称 这和我们一贯以来的作风不符 They said, it didn't meet our standards.
但他们并没有道歉 What they didn't do is apologize.
这个家庭 You had a family who had been told their son
因一个毫无根据的谣言被指控 had essentially committed a crime,
他们的孩子犯了罪 an assertion for which they had no proof and no evidence.
但汉尼提既没有 Sean Hannity not only hasn't apologized
向里奇家人道歉 to the Rich family,
也没有否认谣言 but he hasn't disavowed it.
出于对那一家人的尊重和理解 Out of respect for the family's wishes for now,
我不会在这个时间段讨论此类问题了 I am not discussing this matter at this time.
我不知道为什么他们就是不肯道歉 I have no clue why they, why they won't say it.
播报了假新闻却不愿承认它的虚假性 Pushing out false statements and not being willing to accept that they were false
尽管这些谣言已经被证明了成千上万次是错的 after being proven numerous, numerous times false, um...
我不能理解 doesn't make sense to me.
现在的问题是 该责问谁呢 Now, the real question is, who's to blame?
难道我们要说 噢 罪魁祸首是Reddit吗 Are we going to say, oh, look, Reddit did this?
或者说 罪魁祸首是汉尼提吗 Or are we going to say, oh, look, Hannity did this?
当人们开始审视四周 看看都发生了什么的时候 When people started looking around, what happened?
答案往往落在新事物上 The answer always fell on what's new,
这儿的新事物是科技 and what's new was the technology.
美国华盛顿特区 参议院大楼
脸书CEO马克·扎克伯格 Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg will testify
今天会在参议院司法部以及 in front of a joint hearing of the Senate Judiciary
商务委员会联合听证会上作证 and Commerce Committees today.
参议员会就脸书未能保护其数以百万用户隐私这一问题 Senators will demand answers from Zuckerberg
要求扎克伯格进行直面回答 about Facebook's failure to protect millions of users' private information.
听证会还额外添置了一些座椅 And they've actually added extra seats to this hearing room
以便容纳这44个 to accommodate all the senators
将要向扎克伯格提问的参议员 who are going to be questioning Zuckerberg today, 44 of them.
扎克伯格也将成为听证会中万众瞩目的焦点人物 Zuckerberg is going to be in the hot seat for hours.
如果你仔细观察脸书的话 If you think about Facebook specifically,
你会发现它在全球 there's more than two billion people around the world
每个月有超过二十亿活跃用户 that log into it every month.
脸书是人类历史上的奇迹 There has never been anything like Facebook in the history of humanity.
它包含广告 新闻 There are ads there. There's news there.
你个人的生活信息以及朋友的信息 There's your personal life, your friends.
要是他愿意保证 If he was to honestly say that he would no longer
他不会再售卖半点信息并为此负责 be selling any data, um, and if he would own up to it...
在窃取个人信息 窥探你所为所想方面 They've done better than anyone else on the planet
这世上没有任何人 by sucking in every piece of information about you
卡拉·斯威舍 解码（自媒体网站）
比脸书做的还要到位 and what you do and what you think.
这类似于一种数字式的围墙 And it's sort of like a digital fence,
大家都用自己的信息在上面作画 they've gotten everyone to paint the fence,
而脸书则因此获利 you know, with your data, and they benefit from it.
这样的设计则是为了 It's designed to actually give
尽可能地获取公民信息 so much information about us individually
从而脸书可以分析得知 so that Facebook can turn around and sell insight
如何才能更好地操作我的思维 into what kind of communication will best manipulate me
以达成他人的目的 to do what someone else wants to do.
随着脸书的发展 世界各地的人们 As Facebook has grown, people everywhere
可以凭借这一新型有力的工具 have gotten a powerful new tool
2018年脸书参议院听证会
达到他们的目的 例如与亲友联系 for staying connected to the people they love,
发出号召 建立团体 以及从事商业活动等 for making their voices heard, and for building communities and businesses.
但很明显 在防止脸书被滥用方面 But it's clear now that we didn't do enough
我们做的还不够 to prevent these tools from being used for harm as well.
诸如假新闻 And that goes for fake news,
外部势力干涉选举 仇恨言论等 for foreign interference in elections and hate speech,
开发和用户隐私保护方面也如此 as well as developers and data privacy.
脸书未能清楚地认识到自己所承担的责任和义务 We didn't take a broad enough view of our responsibility,
这是致命的错误 and that was a big mistake,
也是我的错误 我为此表示歉意 and it was my mistake, and I'm sorry.
脸书上关于隐私的讨论不绝于耳 There's a lot of things that have been going on at Facebook for a long time,
也一直有人在爆这方面的料 of people who've covered it a long time.
这其中许多是关于侵犯隐私 And a lot of them are on privacy violations,
其对于数据的调用量 sort of sketchy use of data,
总是在突破底线 呈现不间断式增长 always pushing the envelope-- growth, growth, growth.
扎克伯格先生 我们今天相聚在这里的原因 We're here because of what you, Mr. Zuckerberg,
正是你所描述的失信行为 have described as a breach of trust.
一款有三十万使用量的个性分析测试APP A quiz app used by approximately 300,000 people
导致了八千七百万脸书用户的信息 led to information about 87 million Facebook users
被剑桥分析公司所获取 being obtained by the company Cambridge Analytica.
这怎能可能呢 So how is that possible?
他们的系统 I mean, their systems are very good at detecting
在检测垃圾邮件 恶意用户等方面做得很好 scrapers, spam accounts, and things like that.
他们没有能够成功检测到这次事件 着实令人吃惊 It's kind of mind-boggling that they weren't able to detect this,
我认为原因是 他们根本不在意 and I think the reason is because they didn't care.
索罗什·沃斯基 达特茅斯大学
不是因为他们蓄意为之 Not that, you know, they were being malicious,
仅仅只是因为他们对此毫无兴趣 it's just that it was something they were not interested in.
他们建立了一个系统 They had built a system where they didn't know
却不知道人们在系统上都做些什么 what people were doing on it, really.
特朗普得到了所有领导人的支持
当一些恶意用户操纵系统的时候 And when malevolent actors get involved with the platform,
你会发现控制这个平台 you began to see how easily manipulable
是多么轻而易举 this platform was just by using it the way it worked.
来源：俄方买下的脸书广告栏
俄罗斯人 他们也是脸书的用户 The Russians, they were a customer of Facebook.
他们利用这个 They were. They used the tools
诞生于美国的工具 that were built in this country
在很多重要的领域 to create discord and dissention
与我们的国家挑起摩擦和争端 across our nation in lots of very important areas.
有许多人和特朗普一样认为选举过程未受影响 And some people like Donald Trump say,
但这并非事实 not one vote was shifted, but that's not true.
扎克伯格：虚假新闻并没有影响选举
就我个人而言 Personally, I think the idea that,
脸书上的假新闻 you know, fake news on Facebook, of which, you know,
数量非常少 it's a very small amount of, of the content,
说这些假新闻暗中影响了选举 uh, influenced the election in any way,
是非常疯狂无理的 I think is a pretty crazy idea.
这使得他们从一开始的不屑一顾 So they moved from, it was crazy to think so,
到发现了一些端倪 to okay, there was a little thing,
再到越来越多的事情被发现 and then, oh, there was more, and then--
到最后的"我一个字都不会信" I don't believe any of it. I don't, I don't--
不相信的唯一原因是他们认为公众不知道真相 The only reason I don't believe it is because I don't think they know.
这些未证实且颇具争议的脸书页面 These unverified, divisive pages are on Facebook today.
看起来很像俄罗斯情报部门 They look a lot like the anonymous groups
所利用的一些小团体 the Russian agents used
在2016选举中散布消息的证据 to spread propaganda during the 2016 election.
你能证实这些团体 Are you able to confirm whether they're
不是俄罗斯人创立的吗 是或不是 Russian-created groups, yes or no?
参议员 上周我们已经对外宣布 Um, Senator, last week, we actually announced
脸书会就广告以及页面政策方面做出巨大变动 a major change to our ads and pages policies,
我们会确认每一个广告者的身份 that we will be verifying the identity of every single advertiser--
我问的是这个 你知道他们是什么吗 I'm asking about these specific ones. Do you know whether they are?
我不清楚这些都是什么 I am not familiar with those pieces of content specifically.
这就是这个平台的构建方式 That's the way it was architected.
这就是一个对所有人免费开放 It was architected to be a platform free-for-all,
无人需要承担责任的平台 但钱全归他们 where nobody had responsibility, except they got all the money.
或许听证会中的许多人 Probably a lot of the people involved in the hearings
根本不明白这项科技 didn't actually understand the technology
以及这项科技背后的含义 and the implications, and so, you know, it's hard--
你要是不能真正明白发生了什么 就无法真正发出质疑 If you don't really understand what's happening, you can't really question.
假设我用WhatsApp发送了一封关于《黑豹》的邮件 Let's say I'm emailing about Black Panther within WhatsApp.
我会因此而被推荐有关《黑豹》广告吗 Do I get a Black Panther banner ad?
马克·扎克伯格 脸书创始人兼首席执行官
布莱恩·斯卡兹议员 夏威夷州
参议员 我们不 Senator, we don't--
脸书的系统是不会看到 Facebook systems do not see the content of messages
WhatsApp传输内容的 being transferred over WhatsApp.
对 我知道 但我不是问这个 Yeah, I know, but that's not what I'm asking.
在场所有人都知道他们只有四分钟时间提问 Everybody went in knowing they had four minutes or whatever to ask questions,
而他们把注意力都放在了隐私问题上 and they were very focused particularly on privacy concerns,
没有人想在虚假新闻 and nobody wanted to waste time on
俄罗斯或境外势力上浪费时间 fake news, on Russia, on foreign actors.
当你注册脸书账户时 When you sign up for Facebook,
你会同意服务条款 you sign up for terms of service.
- 你知道吗 - 我知道 - Are you familiar with that? - Yes.
服务条款写道... Okay. It says...
这些服务条款在讲什么 What's about these terms of service?
像是什么 What? Like, as if terms of service
最大的国家危机吗 were our biggest national emergency.
天呐 你不能读这些条款 Oh, my God, you can't read terms of service.
有谁会在意呢 Like, who cares? Who cares?
我们没有关注眼前的问题 Like, they just, we're not focusing on the problem at hand.
那只是一个可笑的幌子 It was just a ridiculous circus, and so, therefore,
马克表现得很好 因为他没有 Mark came off well because he didn't, like,
吐在桌子上或者崩溃 vomit on the desk or something, like, he didn't like, fall apart.
他回答了这些问题 He answered questions.
但他的回答总是 "我之后回答你 参议员" But, you know, I'll get back to you, Senator.
"这是个很有趣的问题 参议员" That's an interesting question, Senator.
他其实什么都没说 什么都没说 He said nothing, he said nothing.
在公司上下进行各种变革 It will take some time to work through all the changes
会花费一些时间 we need to make across the company,
但我一定会将这件事做好 but I'm committed to getting this right.
我不认为他们很恶毒 I don't think they're malevolent people.
马克很可爱 也很有礼貌 Mark is lovely. He's polite.
他非常真诚 想要了解情况 He's earnest. He wants to learn.
只是他们的前提是 It's just that their basic premise
这是个良性的平台 is that this is just a benign platform.
但也是人类史上最强大的工具 These are the most powerful tools in the history of our planet.
最强大的 没有之一 They are. They just are.
当你拥有这些工具时 人们就会想方设法 When you have these tools, people are gonna find ways
用一种更加恶劣的手段 to use them in ways that are
来使用这些工具 more nefarious than other ways,
最起码会用来做些实验 or at least experiment around them.
一旦有了枪 你就想射击 Once you have a gun, you want to shoot it.
这就是枪的作用 You just do, like, that's what a gun is for.
很多这样的科技就和枪一样 A lot of these technologies are guns,
它们会被用来射击 and they're gonna be shot.
如果你是普京 你每天醒来都会发笑 I think if you're Vladimir Putin, you wake up every morning and you laugh.
因为他们用这种工具攻击了我们 Because they did some of this stuff to us,
但2016年最糟的 却是 but the worst part of 2016
我们搬起"石头"砸了自己的脚 is the stuff we did to ourselves.
而现在最糟糕的是 The worst part of what's happening now
我们仍然在这么做 is we're still doing it to ourselves.
攻击来自我们内部 The attack is now coming from inside the house.
小型竞选在使用这些技术 You have small campaigns using these techniques
独立竞选人也在使用 where you have individual candidates using these techniques,
所有人都希望能更好的利用数据 where everybody thinks they need to use data better
精准定位 and more effectively to target
瞄准潜在选民 核心选民 the unknown voter or the hardcore voter
或者是激进选民 or the radicalized voter, one way or the other.
当这成为一种风气 When this is the environment,
俄罗斯人就不用忙活了 the Russians don't have to do very much.
我们自己就足够了 We're doing it to ourselves now.
阿拉巴马州 弗洛伦斯
如果某人拥有生化武器 If somebody has chemical weapons,
而你认为只有自己拥用生化武器 and you deem it necessary to have chemical weapons
马特·奥斯博内 政治家
才能震慑住其他拥有生化武器的人 to deter the chemical weapons, then, you know,
这就是典型的冷战现象 this is a classic Cold War phenomenon.
在民主党内部有一种声音 On the Democratic side, there was a feeling that
民主党人在操控媒体和运用科技的竞赛中 Democrats were behind in this race to use social media,
斯科特·肖恩 纽约时报
已经落后了 to use technology.
所以一些民主党人 So there were some Democrats, it turns out,
正在考虑 who are thinking, like,
必须要进行追赶 you know, we have to catch up in this race.
要学会运用这些工具 We have to understand these tools.
2017年12月的参议院特别选举 And one of the races that was sort of a natural to experiment
便自然地成为了他们 in was the special senate race
练手的对象 in December of 2017.
当时参选的 一方是共和党候选人罗伊·摩尔 It pitted an extremely conservative Christian
罗伊·摩尔
作为前法官的他 是极端保守派基督教成员 named Roy Moore, a former judge, who's a Republican,
另一方是民主党候选人道格·琼斯 against a Democrat named Doug Jones.
道格·琼斯
当时并没有其他选举 There weren't a lot of other races going on,
所以两党都非常重视 so Republicans and Democrats were very focused on this race.
他是一个老派的 会利用种族主义言论的人 You have this old-school, leveraging racist rhetoric.
那些女性出来指控罗伊·摩尔 All the women who are coming out and accusing Roy Moore
华盛顿邮报 一女性指控在其14岁时, 曾遭到当时32岁的罗伊·摩尔性骚扰
性侵未成年少女 of advances on under-aged women
与品行不端 and really inappropriate conduct,
引起了民主党人的恐慌 that was feeding into all of Democrat's fears
这发生在2016年 coming out of 2016.
特朗普支持被指控猥亵过儿童的摩尔
如果同样的事再次发生怎么办 What if this is happening again?
如果这些人又赢得了选举怎么办 What if these guys are winning elections again?
于是一个硅谷的亿万富豪雷德·霍夫曼 So, Reid Hoffman, a Silicon Valley billionaire,
决定资助他支持的民主党派 decides to bankroll his own pro-Democratic campaign
减小罗伊·摩尔当选的可能 to dampen Roy Moore's chances.
我们得到了十万美元 We got $100,000.
我不知道那是不是霍夫曼先生的钱 I don't know if that was Mr. Hoffman's money
或是怎样 or what, what it was.
我只知道钱到账了 All I know is that money arrived,
得行动起来了 and it was time to go to work.
阿拉巴马运动 正如我说的一样 The Alabama project, as I titled it,
是利用脸书 was an effort to use Facebook
效仿一些近些年针对民主党 and emulate some of the tactics that had been used
使用过的计谋 against Democrats in recent years.
道格·琼斯不知道这些是以他的名义展开的 Doug Jones didn't know that this was happening on his behalf.
- 道格·琼斯 - 道格·琼斯 - Doug Jones! - Doug Jones!
那是一场不可思议的竞选 不可思议的选举 It was an incredible run. It was an incredible election.
一场有趣的选举活动 It was a fun campaign,
很紧张 偶尔会变得有点奇怪 nerve-wracking campaign, got a little weird on occasion,
议员 道格·琼斯 美国阿拉巴马州议员
选举之夜很棒 uh, and then election night was just amazing.
这儿的喊声震耳欲聋 It is absolutely deafening in here.
重大新闻：民主党道格·琼斯赢得选举
这则新闻正在穿越屏幕 This news just coming across the screen there...
您以两万票赢得选举 Your election was won by about 20,000 votes.
- 是的 - 准确的说是微弱优势 - Mm-hmm. - A fairly small margin?
当然 有130万选民 Oh, yeah, out of 1.3 million, I would say
可以说局势还是很胶着的 that that was relatively tight.
毫无疑问 道格·琼斯赢了 Doug Jones won, absolutely.
我所做的仅仅是在外围小小地推波助澜 All I did was push a little from the outside.
我们想通过努力 让共和党人 Our effort, we were hoping, would help Republicans
投不了票 not turn out to vote.
所以我们建立了一个叫阿拉巴马禁酒的页面 So we created a page called Dry Alabama,
一群支持罗伊·摩尔及其所在共和党的保守派选民 a conservative, pro-Roy Moore, pro-Republican bunch of people
想要让阿拉巴马再次禁酒 因为酒类法变得过于宽松 who wanted to make Alabama dry again because the liquor laws had gotten too liberal.
我们的想法是 如果你倾向于 And our idea was that if you show this
不要听从魔鬼谎言, 遵从上帝的道路。 对酒类法案施加影响, 让阿拉巴马禁酒
温和的郊区共和党人 to moderate suburban Republicans,
他们会说 那些支持罗伊·摩尔的人疯了 they will say, oh, man, these Roy Moore supporters, they are crazy.
如果这些人这么疯狂 And if these Roy Moore supporters are so crazy,
我就不能支持他 then I just can't support him.
这就是我们的想法 That was the idea.
如果你喜欢我 你就会害怕 If you're like me, you're fearful for the souls
我们兄弟姐妹的灵魂 of our brothers and sisters.
我们录了视频 一些视频 We made videos, and some of the videos
是无酒精鸡尾酒的配方 were just mocktail recipes.
试试品尝这款罪恶饮料 Try this moral take on a sinful beverage.
正义的薄荷冰酒 A righteous mint julep.
我有创造新声音的天赋 I have a knack for creating new voices,
这个广告中 听起来更加保守 and in this particular case, it sounded like a real conservative.
你装作另一个人 You were pretending to be somebody that you weren't.
当然 Oh, sure, sure.
在我写下这些话的时候 Um, I was definitely pretending to be
会装作一个保守的人 a conservative when I wrote that stuff.
我第一次感到自己这么有力量 真的 I felt empowered for the first time ever, really,
我们的前辈这么做 我们也能 重启禁酒令#阿拉巴马禁酒#停止诱惑#道德的阿拉巴马
对于共和党人 我们终于实现了 to finally give, maybe, a Republican party
以其人之道还治其人之身 a taste of its own medicine a little bit.
总的来说 假新闻无法避免 Fundamentally, the fakery is... going to happen.
它发生了在我身上 为什么不能在你身上发生呢 It's happening to me, so why should it not happen to you?
阿拉巴马竞选使用俄国技术
2018年12月 It was December of 2018
一则纽约时报的报道 when the New York Times article came out
指控说到 in which the allegation was
有人伪造了新闻账号 there was a creation of some fake news type accounts
来影响竞选使其对我有利 to try to influence the election in my favor.
我一是很诧异 And I was absolutely, one, stunned,
二是非常愤怒 非常 非常 愤怒 two, pretty outraged, pretty, pretty angry about that
立即说到 and immediately said so,
立即进行调查 and immediately called for an investigation.
至少两组民主党人 At least two groups of Democrats
被发现 that we've found out about
尝试使用俄罗斯技术 were experimenting with essentially Russian techniques.
"新知识公司"身在其中 "托芙实验室"也是 New Knowledge was part of that, so was Tovo Labs,
最后发现我的小团队也是 and, it turns out, so was my little group.
当时我并不知情 Um, I did not know that at the time.
"新知识"的一些的技术 在我看来很粗糙 The New Knowledge stuff, some of that seems pretty sketchy to me.
让我们首先从 So let's start with the idea that
乔纳森·摩根 新知识公司CEO
"意识塑造事实"这一观点开始 reality is a construct of your mind.
而在哲学背景下这又意味着什么 And what that means, in a philosophical context,
我们都活在自己的主观现实中(即唯心主义) is, um, that all of us live in our own subjective reality.
一家总部设在德州奥斯丁的小型网安公司 A little cybersecurity company called New Knowledge
名叫"新知识" based in Austin, Texas
他们得到了 they got some money
雷德·霍夫曼向这个小项目的转账 from Reid Hoffman through a pass-through to this little project.
阿拉巴马行动资金链
雷德·霍夫曼
美国交流技术公司
新知识公司
消息来源：阿拉巴马计划泄露报告
这个公司创建了一个 This group created a conservative
阿拉巴马保守派的脸书页面 Alabamian Facebook page
1.激怒民主党人 2.压制共和党强硬派 3.离间或说服温和共和党人
试图影响竞选 to try to influence conservatives,
虽然他们是民主党人 是自由派 even though they were Democrats, they were liberals.
这些是参议员雇佣的 These were the guys the Senate hired
消息来源：议员就俄罗斯干预事件的报告
来做综合性报告的人 to do a comprehensive report,
这份报告确实很棒 which was quite a well-done report,
就像俄罗斯人2016年的报告一样 on what the Russians did in 2016.
他们被发现在美国政治中 And here, they're caught doing a little bit of it
使用了一些 themselves in US politics.
这对他们非常难堪 有损形象 It's very embarrassing for them, very damaging for them.
在承认伪造脸书页面后 脸书停用了乔纳森·摩根的账号
除此之外 他们支持 Among other things, they endorsed
一位保守派书面候选人 a conservative write-in candidate
试图从罗伊·摩尔处分离选票 to try to draw votes from Roy Moore.
感谢你们 感谢你们的鼓励 点赞和转发 感谢你们为了我的候选资格和朋友家人争执 感谢你们为我选举所投入的财力和时间 感谢你们发来(我非常确定这是不合法的)写着我名字的选票照片 感谢你们骄傲地和我站在一起 感谢你们对两党体制的抗争 感谢你们所做的一切 谢谢 ——马克·沃森
新知识公司获得了极大投资 New Knowledge has gotten a ton of investment
进行反造谣研究 to conduct research to counter disinformation,
他们自己却在造谣 and they themselves are currently operationalizing disinformation.
这是很有问题的 It's really problematic.
乔纳森·摩根声称新知识公司仅在阿州实验 但拒绝承认参与了阿拉巴马计划的其他方面
尽管我认为研究者有道德义务去更深刻地理解这些行为 从而能够告知社交媒体和大众其影响 但是我 或是新知识公司过去没有 并且将来也不会实施类似的实验
这仍旧有些神秘 It's still a little bit mysterious,
因为新知识公司与首席执行官乔纳森·摩根 because New Knowledge and Jonathan Morgan, the CEO,
对于很多事情都撒了谎 was, I think, lying to me about various things.
这是一个散乱的过程 牵涉到很多人 And it was kind of loosely run and involved multiple people,
我认为有些人会有不同意见 and I think some people had different ideas about it than others.
但是每个人 这个时候 But everyone's, at this point, everybody's kind of like,
都会撒谎并且指摘其他人 lying and pointing a finger at somebody else.
你作为州事务卿 As the secretary of state,
必须要证实各项选举结果 who has to certify election results,
你一定很担忧 you must be concerned about
约翰·梅里尔 阿拉巴马州事务卿
这些出色的欺骗技术 these incredibly deceptive tactics.
当然 但是说实话 Yeah, but seriously, now.
我们这里说的 What we're talking about here is not anything different
与美国政坛中发生的 than what has occurred in US politics
或者世界各时期政治中发生的没什么区别 or international politics in the history of political systems.
唯一不同的是 现在人们能够 The only difference is now people are able to do that,
更加高效地做到 in many people's minds, more effectively
借助于社交媒体 because of social media.
所以这些手段没有引起特别警示吗 So these tactics don't raise a special kind of alarm?
问题在于你没法彻底解决这个问题 Well, the problem is, you can't ever fully address them,
因为你无法控制 because you can't control the behavior
参与这种活动者的行为 of people who are engaging in that activity.
约翰·梅里尔 阿拉巴马州事务卿 John Merrill, Alabama's secretary of state,
是坚定的共和党员 is definitely part of the Republican machine,
他处理事务的方式 and he will settle things on terms
自然也会照顾共和党的利益 that are favorable to the Republican machine.
某种程度来说 我原本希望右翼人士 To some degree, I was hoping that there would be
会提出更多异议 more reaction from the right.
我本来还期待他们给出的反应会是 I was hoping that there would be more,
哦天 你做的行为太可怕了 oh, well, that's terrible, what you did.
但这并没发生 But that didn't happen so much.
作为国务卿 你能提出一些措施 Are there actions you would take as secretary of state
来防止选举中出现假消息吗 to defend against disinformation in elections?
假如竞选过程中出现了违法行为 Well, if there were instances where the law was broken
我们一定会采取行动 in regard to campaigning, we definitely will.
但若只是其中一位候选人 But if it's simply someone
比竞争对手更擅长拉票 doing a superior job to another candidate
并且也没有触碰法律的底线 without going outside the boundaries of the law,
我们不可能去仔细分析 then we can't pick apart
每个人做的事情 因为这样 what certain people are doing, because at that point,
是对大家时间和精力的一种浪费 that's not making the most effective or best use of our time.
我不能说我们真的造成了决定性的影响 I can't say that we actually made the difference,
这有点夸张了 I wouldn't go that far.
但客观地算一下 But think of the math here.
这个宣传有三百万点击率 Three million people saw this ad.
假设我们成功动摇了百分之一的人 If we affected one percent of them,
使他们不投给对手 so that they ended up not voting,
那就是三万票 that's 30,000 votes.
道格·琼斯是以21 000票领先的 Doug Jones won by 21,000 votes.
就算我们只影响了千分之一的点击者 If we affected one in a thousand of the people who saw that ad,
那还是三千票 差不多等于 that's 3,000 votes, that's about equal
道格·琼斯在十一个郡里的 to Doug Jones's winning margin
领先票数 in 11 of the counties that he won.
如果有很多这样的政治宣传 Imagine a bunch of these efforts,
每一个都稍稍影响了民众的选择 each whittling away just a little bit of the vote.
在选票胶着的时候 That what you-- That's all you need
这将成为获选的决定性因素 if you're talking about a close race.
道格·琼斯(民主党)赢得阿拉巴马席位
所以我觉得 我使这些手段 So, yeah, I have a moral imperative
也无可厚非 to use these techniques against you,
我别无选择 因为我若不做 I absolutely have to, because otherwise,
我的政治立场怎么办 what's gonna happen to my political perspective?
我方的立场将无人问津 It's gonna be drowned out completely.
现实就是 一方遵守着 The situation is that one side is obeying a set of rules
另一方永远不会在乎的规则 that the other side will never respect,
永远不会 ever.
只有当这些规则 And they will not change the rules
妨碍到了他们 until the rules start smacking them
他们才会考虑改变 in the face a few times.
负负不能得正 这毫无逻辑 Two wrongs do not make a right, that's, that's crazy.
如果左派突然发现 If all of a sudden, the left sees
右派在做这种事 便觉得我们也要做 we've got to do this because the right's been doing it,
然后他们开始占据上风 那右派便会变本加厉 and they start winning, then the right's gonna up their game.
使得左派必须更加努力追赶 Then the left's gonna up their game.
演变到最后 整个民主政治 And the next thing you know, there is nothing
就会变成一场骗局 about this democracy that is real.
我也不知道这个漩涡有多深 I wonder about how intense the spiral will be.
不知这种现象是否暗藏着更多潜在的危害 I wonder if there's not something more toxic with all this.
我们不知道假新闻的具体影响 We don't know the effects of fake news.
更不知道它下一步会如何发展 We don't know where this is going.
它日新月异 It's changing by the day.
如同当年的工业革命 但它速度更快 影响更广 It's the industrial revolution, but faster, bigger,
也可能会带来更严重的后果 and maybe more consequential.
我们对它的未来一无所知 We don't know where it's going.
我好似在一片 I see myself drowning,
毫无尽头的汪洋里 慢慢沉溺 drowning in an ocean that gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
我当然希望世界上没有假新闻 I would prefer a world without fake news,
但如果别人都在利用它 我也不得不用 but if others are using it, I'm gonna use it.
NBC晚新闻正在报道 NBC News is reporting tonight
华盛顿邮报：穆勒团队自2016年秋开始监听电话及邮件记录
有关于抹黑罗伯特·穆勒的计划 about an apparent effort to smear Robert Mueller.
这一事件是诋毁穆勒信誉的一场阴谋
这疑似是特朗普党派 The plot appeared to be the latest
穆勒要求调查针对他的阴谋
令人费解的最新行动 and one of the more bizarre in a string of attempts
纽约时报：抹黑穆勒的计划被爆料 FBI介入调查
目的是降低穆勒调查内容的可信度 by supporters of President Trump to discredit
将其呈现为一场清除异己的政治行动 Mr. Mueller's investigation as a hoax and a witch hunt.
小杰克
雅各布 我久仰你的大名了 Jacob, I feel like I've known you for years.
- 今天很高兴终于请到你了 - 嗯 我也是 -I'm glad you're finally here. - Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
在今天的新闻发布会 Today, at the press conference,
雅各布·沃尔 右翼阴谋理论家
我们一定要把事情公之于众 the main mission is to set the story straight.
我们必须完整地表述出 And we have to lay out, in detail,
证人对穆勒的指控 the accusations of our client.
这不是诽谤 我们在为历史做贡献 This for us, is not about infamy, it's about legacy.
我们必须证明 We have to get this done. We have to prove
罗伯特·穆勒有性侵犯罪史 我们可以做到的 that Bob Mueller is a sex offender, and I think we're gonna do that.
我们会做到的 We'll do that.
若我们仅仅想以诽谤他人来炒作 If we were seeking infamy and publicity,
我们就不会啃这根硬骨头了 we'd be doing other things.
- 这是个艰难的任务 - 嗯 真的 -This is too hard. -Yeah, believe me.
- 真的很难 This is too hard.
我们悬赏了25000美元 We put out a notice offering a reward,
试图从联邦调查局 $25,000 reward for whistleblowers
或者穆勒团队内部 either within Bob Mueller's organization
寻找告密的人 or within the FBI for bad stuff.
我们希望有麦凯比或者穆勒的黑料 We were looking for dirt on McCabe or Mueller.
杰克·伯克曼说他会指控 Jack Burkman says he's going to bring forward
穆勒曾参与性侵犯 a sexual assault accuser against Robert Mueller.
而起诉人也会参加媒体会面 And the accuser is going to come to this press conference.
这会肯定成为爆炸新闻 And so, this is, obviously, an explosive charge.
奥利弗·达西 美国有线电视新闻网络
所以现在很多媒体 So you saw a lot of interest from media outlets
都对此十分关注 willing to look into this
奥利弗·达西 美国有线电视新闻网络
好像这件事已经被证实了一样 if this were something that were true,
尽管 这些指控人 despite, even, the fact that
都是一些社会边缘的无名人士 these people are fringe characters.
你差不多上了十个杂志封面 You're on like, ten magazine covers.
- 你知道吗 - 嗯 我是上了封面 -Do you know that? - I'm on the cover, yeah.
- 你是封面诶 - 额 我可不知道 -You're on the cover. -Well, I don't know
这周有多少人 多少刊物 how many people, how many publications
把我写成了一个纳粹分子 真的是 have called me a NazI this week, I mean, jeez.
雅各布·沃尔是靠着在推特上 Jacob Wohl is a guy who rose to fame
煽动众怒而炒作成名的 by being an obnoxious character on Twitter.
雅各布·沃尔就是一个江湖骗子 Jacob Wohl is a charlatan
致力于帮助特朗普散布有利却荒谬的言论 who is part of the bizarro-world Trump-verse information machine.
他一直都乐于哗众取宠 He has wanted to be more important than he is for some time.
其实 和雅各布挂上关系 反而会 You know, I think it kind of hurt Jack's case
从多个媒体得到可靠消息 明天会有关于穆勒的黑料爆出 敬请期待
降低杰克的可信度 to have Jacob also involved in it,
因为前者本就是个不可靠的人物 because he was already such an untrustworthy character.
有证人的消息吗 Any word from our gal?
有的 有的 她刚刚 yeah, yeah. She's just,
她不来了吗
好吧 没事 No, okay, that's fine.
你觉得她还会来吗 改天的话 Do you think she'll do it... Will she pick another day?
- 一半的可能性吧 - 行吧 -I think there's coin-flip odds. -All right.
我们走吧 Off we go.
我们就说她临阵退缩了 Let's say that she made a last-minute decision.
半小时前刚做的决定 I'll just say in the last 30 minutes,
她觉得人身安全受到了威胁 because of threats and other things,
所以决定不出席了 she's made a decision not to appear today.
但我们依然会公布她的证言 But we're gonna go over the details of her sworn statement.
- 她是真的害怕吧 - 嗯 - She's extremely scared... -Yeah.
收到了那么多死亡威胁 她的安全有保障吗 from a flurry of death threats, and she's safe?
你就说 我们给她安排了安全屋 You could say something like, we have her in a safe house.
- 这个你应付就行了 - 好 -I'll leave all that to you. - Yeah.
你就说她30分钟前做的决定 Yeah, just say in the last 30 minutes,
因为我都告诉了记者们她会在场 because I'm telling all these reporters she's there.
- 不然那些记者也不会来了 - 嗯 -Otherwise, they won't come. -Yeah.
你也知道的 记者简直是又笨又懒 You know this, reporters are-- they're lazy and they're dumb.
- 嗯 - 他们就算去过哈佛 -Right. -They go to Harvard,
还是很傻 他们简直 but they're dumb. They're just--
新闻专业就是个笑话 A journalism major, I mean, come on.
他们简直是一群傻子 They just they're dummies.
你完全能在12分钟内学会 Here's how you write an article.
怎么写一篇新闻稿 You can learn that in about 12 minutes.
- 是啊 他们专业到底学了什么 - 没错 -Yeah, what do they teach them? -Yeah, exactly?
新闻专业 Journalism.
这是什么鬼东西 What the hell is this thing here?
- 做给我们看的吗 - 应该是 -Is this for us? - It is.
Antifa(左翼反法西斯组织)恐怕也来了
这就是Antifa吗
等等 让我先拍张照 Hang on, I got to take a picture of this. I got to take a picture.
这巴士好像载了一群暴民来 They bused in a mob, it looks like.
- 你看那里 Antifa的人坐巴士来了 - 真的吗 -Look at that, they bused Antifa. -Really
- 什么 谁 - 一群暴民坐巴士来了 -Who's bused-- -They've bused in a mob.
老天 你看看这 我们可真有关注度 Jesus, look at this, huh? Wow, we must rate, you know?
- 我叫雅各布 - 你是雅各布 - Yeah, I'm Jacob. - You're Jacob.
- 你是哪位 - 我是亚当·高曼 -Who are you? -I'm Adam Goldman.
- 纽约时报的 - 亚当·高曼 是你啊 -New York Times. -Adam Goldman, that's right.
- 你最近刚刚在推特上关注我的 I think you followed me on Twitter recently.
- 是的 - 对吗 - 嗯 -I did. -Or did you? Yeah.
外面貌似停了一辆"租赁暴民"的Soros巴士 Yeah, it looks like they have a rent-a-mob Soros bus here.
[Soros梗来自于一个叫George Soros的人 被指控从中美洲带入一个商队的外来移民]
- 是吗 你怎么知道 - 我刚在窗户外看到了 -Is that-- How do you know that? -I just saw it out the window.
- 所以那是个"租赁暴民"的Soros 你凭什么这么说 So that is a rent-a-mob Soros-- How can you say that?
我当时坐在沃尔后面 I'm sitting behind Wohl,
他们在那边哈哈笑说 看 有个Soros资助的巴士 and they're like ha, ha, ha, here's a Soros-funded bus
亚当·高曼 纽约时报
载着抗议者过来 bringing protesters in.
然后我跟他说 这只是个巴士而已 And I said to him, I said, that's just a bus.
不就那样吗 It looks to be that's what it is.
- 所以你没有任何证据 - 这完全符合啊 -So, you have no evidence-- -It would fit would fit the profile--
- 我说它长得像 - 你没有证据 -I said it looks like. -You have no evidence
证明这是个Soros暴民巴士 to suggest that is a Soros mob bus,
你却坚持这么说 but, yeah, you're saying that.
你真的得谨言慎行 Sorry, you got to be careful what you say.
两人闲聊说说也就算了 This is just chatter between two guys.
懂了 行 I got you, right, right, right.
你只是看到了一辆巴士 你就说 There's a bus outside, you're making a claim
那是一车Soros的暴民 that it's a Soros mobster bus?
- 很可能是啊 - 可能 -It probably is. -Probably.
然后他立刻上推特 Then he goes and tweets it.
暴民坐巴士来了
把巴士的照片发了出去 他就这么制造了假新闻 Tweets a picture of the bus. He's just created fake news.
在推特和其他社交网络上的不良信息 You see the toxicity that ends up on Twitter,
就是像他这种人创造的 and other social media, and these guys are the creators.
作为一个花大量时间 It offends me as a journalist,
挖掘真相 来揭露和澄清各种假消息的记者 somebody who spends an enormous amount of time
他这种做法实在是冒犯到我了 trying to get to the facts that they're polluting real news.
我正坐着美铁公司的火车 从纽约 I'm on the train, Amtrak, headed to DC
去华盛顿参加这个媒体发布会 from New York to go to this press conference.
杰克·伯克曼习惯在罗斯林假日酒店 It's in the Rosslyn Holiday Inn, where Jack Burkman
举办这些东西 normally holds these things,
然后 我被告知起诉人不会来了 and... it comes to light that the accuser's not gonna show up.
这丝毫不令人惊讶 It's not surprising that this isn't panning out, right?
我是来自"每日野兽"的威尔·萨默
- 很高兴终于见面了 威尔 - 幸会 -Will, good to finally meet you. -Good to meet you.
- 我也是 - 我经常在推特上看到你 -You as well. -See you on Twitter all the time.
我也是 现在什么情况 起诉人不来了吗 Yeah, you as well. So what's the deal? No accuser?
我们现在要进去了 We're gonna go right in right now.
- 好 - 一会儿见 -All right. -Yep, see you in a sec.
- 嗯 一会儿见 - 好的 -See you soon. -All right.
起诉人不来了吗
是这样的 我们一会儿再说起这个 You know, what's happened-- We'll talk about this.
她收到了很多人身威胁
她今早还签了陈述誓词
如果没人知道她的身份 那她怎么会收到威胁
我会让雅各布跟你解释的 I'll let Jacob tell you about that.
她的确收到了很多 She's got a lot-- a number of them.
我们得弄清楚这些威胁信
威尔说的有道理 没人知道她是谁 那她怎么会收到威胁
他们说过有人会来找麻烦
他们也会问 如果她身份保密 她怎么会被威胁
重要的是 我们只能让他们问五 六 或者七个问题
不能让他们毫无节制地提问 这会坏事的
- 好主意 - 问题个数 这是关键 -Okay, good idea, good idea. - Questions, that's the key.
所以 你想要 Now, do you want--
别叫坐在我后面那个纽约时报的家伙
他是个混蛋 想把所有事都甩出去
知道了 Got you.
兄弟 太难了 Wow, boy, this is tough.
比美国橄榄球联盟的同性恋还难搞 太难了 This is tougher than NFL gay. This is tough.
大家下午好 我是杰克·伯克曼 Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Jack Burkman.
这位是雅各布·沃尔 This is Jacob Wohl.
相信大家都听说了 There has developed in the last week
过去一周有传言 as I'm sure all of you have noticed,
描绘了一个相当悲惨的故事 a rather tragic and sad backstory
说我和雅各布等人 that somehow I or Jacob or others
收买了或试图收买某位女性让她站出来 paid or attempted to pay some woman for coming forward.
这都不是真的 None of this is true.
于是他们拿出了这份来自卡罗琳·卡斯的宣誓书 So they come out with this affidavit from this woman named Carolyne Cass.
这份报告由一个叫做"可靠情报"的组织整理而来 The report is put together by this organization called Surefire Intelligence,
罗伯特·穆勒性行为不当指控调查
而且在记者会之前就被放到了网上 and this goes online before the press conference.
所以许多人就开始调查 And so, that was where a lot of people started digging.
可靠情报
可靠情报是一家私人国际机构 为面临复杂业务和诉讼挑战的企业和个人 设计和执行定制解决方案
它的网站一开始看起来确实像是一个合法的组织 On its website, this looked like a pretty legitimate organization at first.
上面说他们都是前间谍之类的人员 It says that they were former spies and things like that,
现在就职于"可靠情报" that work at Surefire Intelligence.
消息来源：可靠情报网
据称他们世界各地办公室的电话都不一样 And their numbers, supposedly different bureaus around the world.
但如果你反向追踪电话号码 And so, if you reverse-searched the number,
你就会发现该号码的注册人是雅各布的妈妈 it was registered to Jacob Wohl's mother.
我们有一位记者曾和雅各布通过电话 We had a reporter here who was on the phone with Jacob,
记者问他 "你确定这不是你的幌子吗" and he said, are you sure this isn't just a front for you?
"可靠情报"是真的吗 You're not-- Surefire Intelligence is a real thing?
然后他说 是的是的 这你不用担心 不用担心 And he's, oh, yeah, yeah. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.
但结果是 Well, as it turned out,
"可靠情报"员工的照片 pictures on Surefire Intelligence of their employees
西蒙·弗里 可靠情报金融调查者 瑞士 苏黎世
是好莱坞演员克里斯托弗·瓦尔兹 还有一些模特 were people like Christoph Waltz, a Hollywood actor. Some models.
而"可靠情报"的老板在领英上的照片非常模糊 Head of Surefire Intelligence, he was a kind of shady-looking guy on his LinkedIn page.
马修·科恩 可靠情报管理合伙人
照片的光线很暗 It was really dim,
但有人在Photoshop上调亮后发现那就是一张雅各布的照片 but someone just brightened it in Photoshop, and it was just a picture of Jacob.
所以当人们不断意识到"可靠情报"有多虚假后 So as people kept realizing how fraudulent Surefire Intelligence was,
他们就安排召开了记者招待会 that was the setup for the press conference.
在这些情况中 雅克布和他的公司对每位涉案女性 Jacob and his firm went through the most intense vetting
都进行了最严格的审查 of any woman in one of these situations,
而我本人也曾为有相同遭遇的女性作过代理 and I've represented other women in these situations, as you know, that I have ever seen.
我们确定指控是可信的 And we determined that the accusation was credible,
否则我们今天也不会来到这里 or we wouldn't be here today.
首先 我要强调的是 这里没人去质疑卡斯女士 First of all, I want to stress, no one is questioning Ms. Cass's account here.
我们20分钟前才知道她的名字 We didn't know her name until 20 minutes ago.
我们质疑的是你们两个 两个毫无信誉的人 Okay, we're questioning you two, both very uncredible people.
- 我想知道的是 - 你为什么说我们两个不可相信 -Here's what I want to know-- -Why are you saying we're uncredible?
你知道的 你们编造了整个塞思·里奇事件 You know, you had all the Seth Rich stuff, whatever.
我的问题是问雅各布的 My question is for Jacob.
你在"可靠情报"这件事上为什么那么可疑 Why were you so shady about Surefire Intelligence?
你跟我们其中一位记者说"可靠情报"不是你经营的 You told one of our reporters you didn't run it.
有化名 有编造出来的人们 There was this alias. There's all these made-up people.
真实情况到底是怎样的 What's going on there?
关于那一点的调查还在进行中 The investigation, at that point, was still in flux
而我在调查过程中保持匿名是非常重要的 and it was important that I preserve my anonymity as I move through it.
但是你想要匿名的话 But if you want your anonymity,
肖娜·托马斯 vice新闻网
现在还召开这个记者会干什么 then why are you doing this press conference now?
你可以直接去纽约警局啊 对吧 Like, you could have just gone to the New York Police Department, right?
那很大一部分程度 是取决于卡罗琳的 Well, a lot of that-- A lot of that is up to Carolyne.
她出于某种原因临时改变了主意 At that time she made the decision for whatever reason
而且她做决定的时候 we didn't know her at the time,
我们还不认识她 to not, to not report it to police.
那她现在报警了吗 But is she reporting it to police now?
- 你们会去找警察吗 - 会的 -Like, are you going to the cops? -Yes.
我们 我们正在做这件事 We're, we're in the process of doing that now.
- 让我谈谈 - 你觉得什么时候能结束 -Let me say something about-- -When do you expect that to be wrapped up?
还在进行中 还在进行中 This is ongoing. This is ongoing.
什么时候提交警方报告
我觉得 大概 本周末之前 Probably, I would think, by the end of this week.
周五之前吗
下周之前 下个周五 At the end of next week, next Friday.
你们已经和纽约市警察局报案了 是吗 You filed that, you filed that with the NYPD, correct?
还没 我们目前还没报案 We haven't, we have not done it yet.
决定取决于我的辩护人 A lot of those decisions are up to my client.
我只是个律师 I'm just the lawyer.
我们还在收集证据的阶段 We are still in the process of gathering evidence.
大致情况是 卡罗琳·卡斯几年前在纽约一家酒吧 The idea was that Carolyne Cass had met Robert Mueller
碰到了罗伯特·穆勒 when she was at a hotel bar in New York a couple years ago.
她声称穆勒强行把她弄到了自己房间 And she claimed that Mueller basically made her go up to his room
随后性侵 强奸了她 and sexually assaulted her, raped her.
而现在 这个故事漏洞百出 Now, there were a couple holes in this story.
其中最大的漏洞大致是有一篇新闻报道称 Probably the biggest being that there was a newspaper article
当天罗伯特·穆勒在华盛顿担任陪审团 about Robert Mueller being in DC that day because he was doing jury duty.
华盛顿邮报当天有一则新闻称看到了他 There's an item in The Washington Post from that day, that spots him.
安德鲁·范伯格 白宫记者
是在一个城镇周边事的一个专栏上 It's one of those sightings-around-town columns
说有人当天看到他出任陪审团 that shows someone saw him at jury duty on that date.
你是在暗示这位特别顾问 Are you suggesting the special counsel
在九年前的华盛顿邮报上撒谎吗 planted a story in The Washington Post nine years ago?
你面前就是有关他行踪的信息 You have information in front of you as to his whereabouts.
等一下 难道他只出现在陪审团里吗 Wait a second. Was he only at jury duty?
人们有时候会去陪审团 但他们也可以去别的地方 Sometimes, people go to jury duty, but they're also somewhere else.
他只在陪审团里出现了吗 Was he only at jury duty?
不是 等等 这并不好笑 No, instead of-- Hang on, it's not funny.
这不是一个好笑的事情 This is not a laughing matter.
他意思就是说 一个人可以同时出现在两个地方 He basically, literally, said, someone can be in two places at once.
它让你觉得自己脱离了现实 It felt like you had left reality
进入了右翼媒体的世界 就像是它的一个真实版本 and entered the right-wing media universe, like, a physical version of it.
当我步入酒店的那一刻 Maybe I had gone through a portal
我可能通过了一个大门 来到了这诡异的右翼世界 when I walked into the hotel and ended up in this weird right-wing place
在那里 杰克·伯克曼和雅各布·沃尔在出庭 where Jack Burkman and Jacob Wohl were holding court.
这一切都是为了诋毁罗伯特·穆勒吗 Is the whole point of this to discredit Robert Mueller?
如果是的话 And, and if that is the case,
你觉得这样真的就可以停止俄罗斯的调查了吗 do you really think that would shut down the Russia investigation?
不 这不是为了诋毁任何一个人的 Uh, no, the point of this is not to discredit anyone.
而是为了得到真相 The point of this is to get to the truth.
她的名字里有没有"e"
- 是的 对 - 有"E"吗 -That's correct, that's right. - It is with an "E"?
- 等等 这里 - 等一下 - Wait, there's-- -Hang on.
你会搞清楚的 好了 卡斯女士是 -You'll figure it out. Okay, Ms. Cass is...
不不不 你不能那么说 No, no, no, no, you don't get to say that.
是你把我们叫来的 你得告诉我们她的名字等身份信息 You brought us out here. Tell us her name and all of the identifying information.
她的名字就在下面 Her name's right below...
你知道的 我们参加了很多记者招待会 You know, we go to a lot of press conferences,
会上双方可以是对立的 and they can be adversarial.
在这些记者招待会上 你可以有这样来回地辩论 You can have this back and forth debate during these news conferences,
但你知道你面对的另一方是真诚的人 but you know you're dealing with genuine people on the other side.
而不是这种公然胡说八道的阴谋 You're just not confronted with this blatant bullshit conspiracy.
然后你就会问自己 我是一名记者 And you ask yourself, I'm a reporter.
我在这行已经做了二十年了 那我为什么 为什么会坐在这儿 I've been doing this for 20 years. Why am I... Why am I sitting here?
你们知道的 我今天来这里不是讲故事的 You know, my mission here is not to establish a narrative.
也不是按议程行事 It's not to follow an agenda--
等一下 你已经讲了一个故事 Wait a minute. You just established a narrative
- 并且把这个故事摆在了我们面前 - 等等 等等 -and you put it in front of us. - Hang on, hang on.
不好意思 那是为了陈述事实 Excuse me. It's to bring forth the facts
让事实说话 这才是我们在这里要做的 and let the facts speak for themselves, and that's what we've done here.
- 等等 最后一个问题 很重要 -Wait, one last question. This is important.
哪儿有 哪儿有 等等 让我说 Where was, where was-- Hold on, I've got this.
穆勒袭击这位女性当天的安保信息在哪里 Where, where was Mueller's security detail on the day he was hitting on this woman?
各位 今天的招待会结束了 谢谢大家 Guys, you know what? We got to wrap it. Thank you all.
我们出去的路上见 We'll see you guys on the way out.
各位 我们说的够多了 我觉得今天就到此为止吧 We've done enough, guys. I think that's enough for today.
- 接下来很快我们还会再办一场记者招待会 - 什么时候 -We have another, we have another conference coming soon. -When?
一拿到卡洛琳的日程安排就和她一起开 With Carolyne, as soon as we get her schedule.
你老是说还会有另外一个招待会 到时会真的给我们... You always say there's another press conference where you're really gonna give us--
顺便问一下 塞斯·里奇的阴谋现在进展如何 What's going on with the Seth Rich conspiracy, by the way?
- 进展顺利 因为... - 目击证人在哪呢 -It worked out well because-- -Where's your witness for that?
你上次说会带目击者来的 You said you were gonna bring a witness last time--
我们今天只是来讨论卡罗琳的 We're only here to discuss Carolyne today.
- 不谈其他的 - 我想要谈谈你的可信度 -Not other matters. -I want to discuss your credibility.
你根本没什么信誉因为 You don't have much credibility because--
- 谁的可信度 - 你的可信度 - Who's credibility? - Your credibility.
-哦 我的可信度 - 你说过你会带目击证人来 - Oh, my credibility. -You said you were gonna bring witnesses--
- 我们有一些平民 - 好了 - We've got some civilians. -All right.
你为什么不出示为她辩护的文件 Why can't you show us the document showing that you're representing her?
我们怎么知道你是不是真的在为这个人辩护 How are we supposed to know that you're representing this person?
口说无凭 We have no evidence.
我们有的 Well, we do.
你好杰克 你和雅各布是怎么联系上的
貌似是他先接触了这个人 It seems like he had the person first.
之后来找的你 他是怎么找到你的呢 Then he came to you, or what happened?
是双方共同努力的结果 Uh, we'll just say it's synergistic.
就是双方共同促成的 We'll, we'll leave it at synergistic.
这整件事就是场闹剧 The whole thing was a circus.
唯一严肃的就是他们真正要做的事 The only serious thing was what they were trying to do,
那就是让罗伯特·穆勒身陷他们能指控的 最糟糕的事情 which is slime Robert Mueller with one of the worst things they can accuse him of.
他让人们在讨论罗伯特·穆勒时 He got people talking about Robert Mueller
联系上一桩性侵指控 and a sexual assault allegation in the same sentence.
他们的目的就是为了败坏罗伯特·穆勒的声誉 They meant to tarnish Bob Mueller's reputation
以此来破坏他对总统的调查 to undermine his investigation into the president.
伯克曼和沃尔所做的不仅是故意欺骗 What Burkman and Wohl were doing was not only knowingly dishonest
而是破坏和毁灭性的打击 这一点他们也知道 and they know that, it was corrosive and destructive.
他们做的就是往墙上扔屎的事 This was about throwing shit on the wall.
这就是他们想干的事 That's all they were attempting to do.
往墙上扔屎来让别人报道 To throw shit on the wall and get somebody to write about it.
如果能让泰晤士报刊登 "震惊..." 他们就心满意足了 They would have been very satisfied if the Times had just written, "This is nonsense."
因为这样一来人们就会搜雅各布 Because they would Google Jacob
可能还能让他上热搜 and he might have come up on the top search
而他自己也根本不会在意他的名字出现在什么故事里 and he doesn't care what context his name is used in.
他会吗 看上去也不像 Does he? It doesn't seem like it.
我们火了吗 这才是真正的问题 Are we trending? That's the real question.
我们火了吗 我确定我们火了 Are we trending? I'm sure we're trending.
我想说 我真的觉得被冒犯了 I mean, I really was offended by the whole thing.
你知道的 我可以回泰晤士报 You know, I could come back to the Times,
泰晤士报也相信我的判断 and the Times trusts my judgment,
但我说 我不会去报道这场记者会 and I said, I'm not writing about this.
我会自己去做尽职调查 I'm gonna do my due diligence.
我要找到这位女性 I'm gonna go try to find this woman
看看到底是不是有什么 to see if there's any there, there.
标准跟我们对待指控卡瓦诺的原告时一样 It's the same standard we would treat Kavanaugh's accuser.
[布雷特·卡瓦诺: 现任最高法院大法官 被指多年前曾性侵一名高中女生]
我们需要找到受害者 与受害者对话 We need to find the victim, talk to the victim,
采访受害者 之后再判断它的真假 interview the victim, and then determine if this is actually real.
但我不会去报道这场记者招待会 Uh, but I'm not writing about this news conference.
主流媒体需要明白 Mainstream media needs to understand
它运作的环境充斥着政治宣传 that it is operating in a propaganda-rich environment
真正的现实并不存在 There are no true realities.
要么是故意欺骗 There is an intentional deception on one side,
要么是带有瑕疵的诚信过程 and there is an honest if imperfect process
人们通过这一过程 尽可能地去贴近真相 of trying to get as near to the truth as we can on the other.
加利福尼亚 旧金山
今天 坐在这里的 Today in the red chair again, in the same place
卡拉·斯威舍 Recode(一家专注于硅谷业务的科技新闻网站)
还是两年前和我们聊过的特里斯坦·哈里斯 we talked two years ago is Tristan Harris,
他是人文科技中心的联合创始人 the cofounder of the Center for Humane Technology.
我们每天花大约四分之一的时间 We spend about a fourth of our lives now
在人造的社会系统上 in artificial social systems.
也就是各种社交媒体 Meaning, in these digital environments.
但这只是在线上的时间 当你离开屏幕 And that's just onscreen. I mean, when you're off-screen,
特里斯坦·哈里斯 人文科技中心
你还会在想那些 you're still thinking thoughts.
- 对 - 社交媒体上看到的东西 -Right. -that came from that artificial social environment.
关于这些的阴谋论 Conspiracy theories on these,
被这些平台放大了数十亿倍 you know, magnified by these platforms, times billions of people,
它将我们的真相完全扭曲 it has completely fragmented our truth,
更重要的是 and more importantly, the scale
人们往往会低估 of the disinformation and misinformation,
虚假信息和错误信息的规模 people tend to underestimate.
你应该没听过纪尧姆·查斯洛特 Um, I don't think you've had Guillaume Chaslot--
- 我没听过 - 他是前油管推荐算法工程师 - No, I haven't, but-- -but he's ex-YouTube recommendations engineer.
他和我们一起工作 他的研究显示 He works with us, and his research showed that
亚历克斯·琼斯被推荐了150亿次 Alex Jones was recommended 15 billion times.
- 对 - 有人在掩盖真相 -Right. -There's a cover-up going on.
"有人在掩盖真相"
他们在播这个叫大卫·霍格的年轻人的视频 They are pulling videos of this young man, a David Hogg.
他上的都是假新闻 以策划假新闻出名的CNN He's on the fake news, CNN, known for staging things,
突发新闻 校园枪击案幸存者要求对枪支管控采取措施
他一遍又一遍地说 我不是危机演员 and he says over and over again, I am not a crisis actor.
他就是个危机演员(一群被聘用于假新闻中造假的演员)
我不是危机演员 I am not a crisis actor.
关于17岁的帕克兰枪击案幸存者 Right-wing conspiracy theories going viral
大卫·霍格的右翼阴谋论在网上疯传 about David Hogg, a 17-year-old Parkland shooting survivor.
阴谋论攻讦枪击案幸存者活动人士
有未经证实的声明称他是一个危机演员 The unsubstantiated claims say he's a crisis actor,
一名受过训练的演员 a trained actor who takes advantage
大卫·霍格现在是一名政客 他拥有一个令人眼花缭乱的推特账户 得到了他想要的所有名声
利用悲剧来获取政治利益 of tragedies for political gain.
周二 这一个说法在脸书 照片墙 Tuesday, the conspiracy went viral on Facebook,
推特和油管上大肆传播 Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube.
我不清楚他们是不是危机演员 Were they crisis actors? I mean, I don't know.
阴谋论攻讦枪击案幸存者活动人士
我认为这种可能性是存在的 I think the possibility exists.
一个动图上艾玛·冈萨雷斯撕毁了看似宪法的东西 A picture of Emma Gonzalez tearing what appeared to be a Constitution.
那真的是宪法吗 Was it really a Constitution?
我是怎么想的 Was it-- What do I think about it?
特洛伊·米查利克 百步穿杨枪支专卖店店主
我认为那是非常可耻的 I think it's pretty disgraceful.
犯得着撕毁宪法吗 Why would you tear up the Constitution?
其实那张照片是假的 Well, so, in fact, that photograph was fake.
假的 真的
- 那是P合成修改的 - 好吧 -It was Photoshopped. -Okay.
她拿的不是 She wasn't holding up--
我懂了 我懂了 I got you, I got you.
知道了那是故意 Knowing that that was purposely
合成修改和伪造的 Photoshopped and faked?
这比她真的被指控 Yeah, that's more upsetting than the fact
撕毁宪法更令人难过 that she was allegedly tearing up the Constitution.
脸书是一座没有标识 Facebook, it's a city without signs
没有警察和垃圾的城市 and police forces and garbage.
那就是他们打造的城市 That's the city they built.
有哪家公司不会删除 What company wouldn't shut down
可查证的虚假消息 absolutely provable false information?
他们创造了传播的平台 They create the platform where it gets spread,
然后说 "噢 我们什么也做不了" and then are like, oh, what can we do?
他们拿宪法第一修正案当挡箭牌 They hide behind the First Amendment
他们不是政府 and they are not the government.
他们有能力做出选择 只是他们不想去做 They can make choices, they just don't want to.
说到假新闻 换句话说 To say fake news, in other words,
杰罗姆·科西 政治工作者和作家
我不要你的新闻 因为它是假的 I don't want your news because it's fake,
是与宪法第一修正案背道而驰的 is antithetical to the principals of the First Amendment.
你不能在没着火的剧院里喊着火了 You can't say "fire" in a crowded theater
这是霍姆斯大法官说的 when there's no fire. That's what Justice Holmes said.
这可能会导致有人受伤 Because it could lead to people being hurt.
但是如果是有人站起来宣扬革命 But if someone gets up and preaches revolution
杰罗姆·科西
但不太可能 and there's no imminent likelihood
会因此产生暴力 that there's gonna be any violence resulting from that,
那这种言论应该被容忍 then that speech has to be tolerated.
第一修正案规定政府不能压制言论 The First Amendment says the government can't suppress speech,
安琪·霍兰 政治真相新闻网
但没有理由平台或社区 but there's no reason that platforms or communities
不能说这种言论太过火了 can't say this kind of commentary's beyond the pale,
坚持说这一点的人 and people who insist on saying this
将受到惩罚 are gonna suffer a penalty.
他们不是联邦政府 They're not the federal government.
也不是什么公众广场 这些都是私人实体 It's not a public square. These are private entities.
只要他们想做就能做到 They can do what they want.
只是什么都不做会更方便 It's just more convenient to do nothing.
什么都不做会更有利 It's more profitable to do nothing.
我在担心其他人的未来 I'm worried about the future for others.
因为发生在我身上的事也可能发生在任何人身上 Because what happened to me can happen to anyone.
詹姆斯 亚历芬蒂斯 乒乓彗星店主
一个比乒乓彗星更脆弱的人或是机构 A more vulnerable person or institution like Comet
会被立刻击垮 would have been taken down right away.
这些针对不同人和机构的网络武器 These online weapons
会产生持久的后果 that are directed at different people and institutions
并且摧毁人们 have lasting consequences and do destroy people.
在披萨门的案例中 In the case of Pizzagate,
在我看来 当脸书发现类似的东西时 now, to my mind, when Facebook finds something like that,
他们就该后台删除它 they should shut it down.
为什么要创造能让用户发布假消息的工具 Why did you build tools that allow someone to do that,
或者本身可以不断自我迭代的工具 or allow it to iterate and iterate and iterate?
如果它无法反复迭代 What tools could you build where
那创造出来又有何意义 that isn't iterated again and again?
年轻的白人男性掌控着硅谷 White men, younger, run Silicon Valley
如果你在生活中从来没有感到不安全 If you don't ever feel unsafe in your life,
你就不会理解缺乏安全是什么样的感觉 you do not understand lack of safety.
你不会把安全构建进去 You do not build that in.
有人在推特上和我说过 I had someone at Twitter talk to me about,
他们第一次在网上被攻击的时候 they had gotten attacked online, the first time it happened.
他们觉得 这太糟了 And they were like, oh, that was pretty bad.
我就说 欢迎来到女人的世界 And I'm like, welcome to the world of women.
欢迎来到有色人种的世界 Welcome to the world of people of color.
欢迎来到边缘人群的世界 Welcome to the world of marginalized people.
每天都是这样的 You know, this is what it's like every day.
如果你能预想到 If you can think of a really awful thing
发生在你的产品上的危机 that could happen with your product,
你得想办法减少它会受到的伤害 you need to figure out ways that it doesn't have as much damage.
他们没有花足够的时间来这么做 They have not spent enough time doing that.
脸书总部：媒体见面会
美国有线电视新闻网的奥利弗·达西 Oliver Darcy from CNN.
InfoWars很 我不知道 InfoWars is pretty, I mean, I don't know
你们有没有看过那个页面 但他们会 if you've been to the page, but they pretty much
音源：奥利弗·达西 美国有线电视新闻网
编造一些东西来获得点击率 创造收入 吓唬人们 make stuff up to get clicks and generate revenue and scare people.
我不明白脸书怎么能一边说着 And I can't understand how Facebook can say,
我们会认真打击假新闻和虚假信息 we're serious about fighting fake news and false information,
一边允许InfoWars和亚历克斯·琼斯利用你的平台 but allowing InfoWars and Alex Jones to profit off your platform
获得大量点击率并从中获利 by using it to generate a lot of clicks.
曾经有一场关于亚历克斯·琼斯的持续性辩论 That was an ongoing debate that was happening about Alex Jones.
当我和马克一起做播客的时候 When I did the podcast with Mark,
我们开始讨论亚历克斯·琼斯 we were starting to talk about Alex Jones.
我们后台删除的原则是 The principles that we have on what we remove from the service
Recode Decode播客 卡拉·斯威舍采访马克·扎克伯格
如果它会导致真正的 身体上的伤害 are if it's going to result in real harm, real physical harm,
或者你在攻击某个人 or if you're attacking individuals,
那我们就会删除这些帖子 then that content shouldn't be on the platform.
然后 就会有广泛的争论 But then, there's broad debate, and--
否认桑迪·胡克枪击案的发生可不是争论 Okay, Sandy Hook didn't happen is not a debate.
这就是假消息的 你们就不能把有关的帖子删掉吗 It is false. You can't just take that down?
我承认它是假消息 I agree that it is false.
总而言之 我们更贴近生活来说 But overall, I mean, let's take this a little closer to home.
我是犹太人 Right, so I'm Jewish.
有很多人否认 Um, and there's a set of people who
犹太人大屠杀的发生 deny that the Holocaust happened.
[犹太人大屠杀：是指纳粹德国在第二次世界大战中的种族清洗，是二战中最臭名昭著的暴行之一]
- 对 有很多人 - 我觉得这很无礼 -Yes, there's a lot. -Right, I find that deeply offensive.
但我不认为我们的平台应该删掉有关的帖子 But I don't believe that our platform should take that down
因为我认为不同的人会犯不同错误 because I think that there are things that different people get wrong,
我也不认为他们是故意弄错的 um, either, I don't think that they're intentionally getting it wrong,
但我认为他们 -but I think that they--
在大屠杀否认者的案例中他们可能 你继续说 In the case of the Holocaust deniers, they might be, but go ahead.
否认大屠杀的人并不想撒谎 Holocaust deniers don't mean to lie.
我说 但他们就是撒谎了 And I was like, but they do.
这给我的感觉就是 So that, that, that to me was sort of like,
你还没成熟到可以理解 oh, you're not even sophisticated enough to understand
他们想撒谎 这才是重点 that they mean to lie, that's the whole point.
如果一个经营着世界历史上 If someone who is running the biggest
最大的通信系统 communication system in the history of the world,
并且不能被解雇 someone who cannot be fired,
完全掌控着这个系统的人 someone who has complete control over that system,
不明白他自己说了什么 does not understand what he just said,
这会令我很震惊 it's really-- it really struck me as,
对我来说这是个很尴尬的场面 it was a big uh-oh moment for me.
暗示他们不是恶意的 The implication that they aren't malevolent--
得了吧 他们就是恶意的 he knows they're malevolent, come on.
你可以把他们的言论撤下来 You can take them off. Like, it's okay.
他会因此受到抨击 He's gonna get flak for it, but
但他也会因此得到一大笔钱 he gets paid the big bucks, right?
亚历克斯·琼斯 他是InfoWars的创始人 Alex Jones, he is the founder of InfoWars,
封禁升级 油管 脸书 苹果封禁了亚历克斯·琼斯的频道
现在他自己也感受到了压力 and he is now feeling the heat himself.
油管 脸书 苹果都宣布 YouTube, Facebook, and Apple all announcing
封禁升级 油管 脸书 苹果封禁了亚历克斯·琼斯的频道
他们会移除自身平台上有关他的内容 they are removing his content from their platforms.
是什么打破了局面 What changed in that summer?
苹果出手了 Apple did it.
苹果说 够了 混蛋 When Apple was like, you know, enough, basta.
结束了 That's done.
其他人会想 苹果这么做了 Everybody else then goes, oh, no, now if they do it,
那我们也跟下风呗 I guess it gives us cover to do it.
头天晚上苹果将亚历克斯·琼斯的所有播客 Apple last night removed the entire library
奥利弗·达西 资深媒体记者
从苹果商店下架 of Alex Jones's podcast from their store.
第二天我们就看到 And then, we saw, we've seen throughout the day, actually,
科技平台基本上是把亚历克斯·琼斯从他们的网站上删除了 tech platforms just basically remove Alex Jones from their websites.
除了推特外大多数平台都把他封禁了 He had been banned by most platforms except for Twitter.
所以他就到国会山 And so, he's on Capitol Hill,
大声疾呼审查制度 被攻击的保守派 yelling about censorship and conservatives under fire
压迫 诸如此类非常有亚历克斯·琼斯风格的话 and oppression and all of this Alex Jones' stuff.
所以 我就打算去采访杰克 ·尔西 推特的首席执行官 And so, I was going to cover Jack Dorsey, the Twitter CEO,
他在众议院委员会前作证 testifying in front of a House Committee,
我当时在排队 and I'm standing in line,
等着进那个房间 waiting to be let into this room,
然后亚历克斯·琼斯出现了 and out comes Alex Jones.
亚历克斯·琼斯实况转播
看这里 Look at this right here.
那家伙四处奔走 The guy that goes around policing,
呼吁审查 然后声称 and calling for censorship, and then claims that
特朗普是错的 根本没有对保守派和爱国者的审查 Trump's wrong, there's no censorship of conservatives or patriots.
要点脸吧 You are incredibly shameful.
- 你好吗 亚历克斯 - 你真是 看看你 -How are you doing, Alex? -You are just, look at you.
你简直就是个反美分子 You are literally an anti-American
反言论自由的懦夫 anti-free speech coward.
你会在犯罪新闻网上 You're gonna go down in the history books
遗臭万年的 at the Criminal News Network.
你们现在看到的这个人就是主谋 This is one of the main, this is one of the main people right here.
他走过来开始斥责我 He comes over and starts berating me.
他把超多镜头怼在我面前 He sticks multiple cameras in my face.
那有一群他的右翼支持者聚集起来 There's a crowd that gathers of his right-wing supporters.
过来这边 德鲁 我要让这个人出镜 Come on over here, Drew. I want to get this guy on tape.
这简直难以置信 This is unbelievable.
我当时说的原话是 我没有看见 I was literally saying, I don't see the
犯罪电视新闻网在这 Criminal News Network here.
[讽刺CNN "有限电视新闻网"]
但事实是我们看见了 就在队伍的最前面 But indeed we do, right there at the front of the line at the trough.
然后大约10到15分钟 And for about ten or 15 minutes,
他一直在冲着我的脸吼 he is just yelling in my face.
大家看看这个人的眼睛 I mean, look at those eyes, folks.
典型的贼眉鼠眼 If you want to see the eyes of a rat.
亚历克斯·琼斯选择 Alex Jones has chosen to latch onto
把奥利弗当做一个仇恨形象 Oliver as a hate figure.
他会挑人 说实话我不觉得这是一次巧合 He'll pick people, and frankly I don't think it's an accident,
他通常都会选择女人或者是有色人种 that it's often a woman or a person of color.
就看看这个人的眼睛 Just look at this guy's eyes, man.
他会毁了你的人生 That is who will ruin your life.
看哪 Look, I mean,
他本人看起来还要更加邪恶 he's even more evil-looking in person.
有些事情值得思考 那些你做过的决定 Man: Something to think about, the decisions that you've made.
第二天 推特屏蔽了他 他们的理由是 The next day, Twitter bans him, and what their reasoning was
我个人的理解 那是因为 to my understanding, it's because he
他直播了他辱骂我的行为 livestreamed him berating me.
他使用了推特的潜望镜应用来进行直播 He used a Twitter service to do that, Periscope.
这违反了推特关于禁止针对骚扰的规则 It violated Twitter's rules against targeted harassment,
就这样 那是他的最后一击 and so, that was his last strike.
这整件事都显得很讽刺 That whole thing was sort of ironic.
大喊大叫地抱怨失去了他的表达平台 Yelling and complaining about losing his platform
最后却导致他失去了他唯一仅存的平台 推特 ended up leading to him losing his last remaining platform, being Twitter.
美利坚 美利坚 USA, USA!
你们这些典型的 可恨的恶毒的左翼分子 You're the classic, hateful, vicious leftists
就想出门攻击他人 that just wants to go out and attack people.
-为你感到羞耻 - 你满嘴谎言 -Shame on you, shame on you. -You were telling lies, bro.
- 你什么都不懂 - 你真令人恶心 -You don't know nothing. -You're disgusting.
你才是无可救药地反对言论自由 You're unbelievably anti-free speech as well.
你什么都不懂 You know nothing. Nothing.
当你在国会走廊看见奥利弗达西时
你对他的言论攻击性非常强
你觉得自己被禁言公平吗
他是一个公众人物 在他的工作平台 He's a public figure, in his job,
公众场合 in a public space.
他散布关于我的谎言 积极地 He's lied about me, and actively
费尽心机地游说各大平台禁言我 full-time lobbied to have me removed off platforms
还对此大肆吹嘘 and bragged about it.
他在我眼中尽会说瞎话 And so, I see a modern book-burner,
他还扭曲我的言论 who also misrepresents what I've said,
而且我告诉他 我觉得他是邪恶的化身 and I tell him that I think he's the embodiment of evil,
一个大企业在幕后操纵 a big corporation working behind the scenes
公然地禁言人们 and publicly to silence people.
他就是个颠倒黑白的魔鬼 He is a book-burning monster.
信息战场总部
我第一次拜访亚历克斯·琼斯的时候 When I first visited Alex Jones,
他说有狙击手在房顶上 he told me that there were snipers on the roof,
关于此他第二天致电我澄清 which he then called me the next day to clarify
那其实是他编造的 在房顶上 he had made that up and there actually
伊丽莎白·威廉姆森 纽约时报
并没有狙击手 aren't any snipers on the roof.
他的办公室在奥斯丁(德克萨斯州首府)的某处 His offices are in a part of Austin
他不想让你曝光或者谈论 he doesn't want you to reveal or talk about.
他窗户贴着模糊贴纸 It's smoked windows.
监控摄像头到处都是 It's surveillance video cameras everywhere.
他有这样一个天才的商业模式 He has a kind of genius business model.
他散布这些阴谋论调 He spews out these theories,
然后在每档节目的开场和结尾 and then, at the beginning and end
他都在向你兜售某些产品 of every program, he's selling you something.
他所兜售的产品正是被害妄想症患者们所需要的 And what he sells feeds that sense of paranoia and feeling of being besieged
他很多的听众和关注者们都患有该症 that a lot of his listeners and followers have.
他每天贩卖维生素B This is a guy who sells vitamin B,
男性生殖力产品 以及一些奇怪的食物 male virility products, and special kooky foods
靠的就是散布这些摧毁他人生活的阴谋论 by spreading these theories that damage people's lives
桑迪·胡克小学枪击案充满了内幕 Sandy Hook, it's got inside job written all over it.
[桑迪胡克小学枪击案是发生于2012年 是美国死亡人数第二的校园枪击案]
他消费死去的孩子 These are dead children,
发布各种关于这一事件的假消息 and he put out all this false information about it.
不停地说 "这是言论自由 言论自由" And kept saying, "It's free speech, free speech!"
不 这不是 No, it's not.
桑迪·胡克的死难者家庭 The Sandy Hook families
祈求多年 have been begging for years
求他删掉那些言论视频 to have this or that piece of video removed,
或者脸书发文 或者推特发文 this or that Facebook post, this or that tweet.
大部分时候 他们觉得他充耳不闻 And often times, they feel like that fell on deaf ears.
"禁言" 是一个多么无害的词语 你明白吗 "Deplatformed" is such a bloodless term, you know?
我被禁言了 这到底意味着什么呀 I've been deplatformed. What does that even mean?
当你跟那些家庭沟通的时候 他们会说 And when you talk with the families, they'll say,
你知道这对我而言意味着什么吗 you know what that means to me?
这是长久以来 第一次我不用害怕打开我的邮箱 For the first time, it means I'm not afraid to open my mail.
看见别人对我的威胁 You know, that I'm gonna see a threat from someone.
如果恐吓来到了我的邮箱 And that threat coming in my mailbox
那就意味着他们知道我住哪儿 means they know where I live.
就像詹姆斯·阿莱芬蒂斯和塞思·里奇的家人一样 Just like James Alefantis, just like Seth Rich's family,
他们想要知道 they want to know.
宪法第一修正案所要保护的 会是那种 Does the First Amendment actually protect
将我们的生活造成巨大损失 the types of claims that have caused us
和伤害的言论吗 such damage and such harm?
他们有人说 And you know, had one of them said,
好像在三十年内 you know, this makes me feel like in 30 years
真相将是你搜索谷歌之后跳出来的第一条内容 truth will be what pops up first when you search on Google.
如果你在谷歌里输入桑迪·胡克 You know, if you type Sandy Hook into Google,
这种言论没有被撤下 and this content isn't taken down,
像他这种扭曲事实的言论没有被撤下 and the purveyors of this content aren't taken down,
你在谷歌上看见的第一条就是 这是一个恶作剧 the first thing you'll see is that it was a hoax.
这样一群人就真正扭曲了事实 So then these people have actually changed reality.
巴斯特罗普 得克萨斯
你唯一可以与假新闻相对抗的方法 The only way you fight this sort of fake news
是用事实 is with the truth.
我不知道还有任何其他的方法 I mean, I don't know of any other way to do it.
保罗·佩普 巴斯特罗普法官
你肯定不能用假新闻对抗假新闻 You certainly don't fight it with fake news.
你按他们的游戏规则玩 是不可能获胜的 You don't win that battle by, um, playing their game.
这场舆论战中最重要的目标之一 One of the most important targets of propaganda,
既是俄罗斯政治宣传的真相 and this is true of Russian propaganda in Russia,
也是美国政治宣传的真相 it's true of propaganda in the United States,
那就是达成这种迷失方向的状态 is to achieve this state of disorientation,
这种否认真相才是真正重要的 this denial of the idea that there is a truth of the matter.
挑战已知 Challenging what is knowable
是一种颠覆体系的基本方法 is a fundamental way of upending a system
使得这种体系根本无法去主导 and making it impossible to govern.
这也是一种确保你和我不能 It's also a way to ensure that you and I can't ever
在任何事情上妥协的办法 come to compromise on anything.
这个社区是 This community is really somewhere
基于真相 that's based in truth.
和事实的 and reality.
网络社区是一回事 An online community is one thing,
而一个现实的 可以让你打乒乓球 but a physical place where you're playing ping-pong
和他人一起在餐桌上吃饭 with someone, eating, breaking bread over the table,
能够真实地与 you're able to actually communicate
身边的人交流的地方却是另一回事 with the people around you.
所以如果有人说 So if someone were to say,
天呐 这种事情居然发生了 wow, this crazy thing is happening.
你听说了吗 Did you hear about it?
对桌的另一个人可能会说 Across the table, one might say,
这不是真的 oh, that thing isn't really happening.
威斯特博罗浸信会在乒乓彗星抗议
上帝会送你下地狱 God is going to throw you into Hell.
这仍然很艰难 It is hard, still.
我们一直在被威胁 We've been under continued threat.
我收到的日常短信都是 The daily messaging that I get now
关于人们想杀掉我或者我应该去死 about people wanting to kill me or that I should be dead
这是很难承受的事情 is, you know, a hard thing to deal with.
现在已经是我生活的一部分了 So that's just part of my life now.
但这个社区拯救了我们 But the community saved us.
就是这个社区 Like, it's the community.
基本上是他们拯救了这个餐厅 They, like, saved the restaurant, basically.
他们就说 你们得开张 And also were, like, you need to open.
就周一 On Monday.
我说 And I was like...
我们周一应该不会开了 we're not opening on Monday.
我们永远不会再开门了 We're, we're never opening.
好像餐厅再也不会开张了一样 Like, this restaurant is not gonna be open again,
这是我的想法 感受 和回应 was my thought, feeling and response.
我们召开了员工大会 We called a meeting of the staff
"接下来你们想怎么办" and was like, what do you want to do?
我跟他们说 And I said to them,
我会进行每一项预防措施 you know, I can take every precaution.
我们可以在门口安排武装安保 We would have armed guards at the doors,
可以让警察巡视整个楼 police surrounding the building
来开披萨店 to open our pizza place when we can.
但我真的不想开了 But I was like, I don't want to really open
因为我很害怕 because I'm scared.
我脑子里想的是这些 但我问他们 And, you know, in my head, but I'm like,
你们想怎么办 but what do you want to do?
我们有一个20岁左右的员工说 And this 20-something-year-old staff
我们得开业 was like, we need to open.
因为 Because...
乒乓彗星披萨店不能被打败什么的 Comet is not gonna be defeated or something.
或者说这个社区需要我们 Or like, this community needs us.
所以我们能再次开张 So we were able to open
主要是因为他们想开 because they wanted to.
而且整个社区也非常支持 And the support of this community
他们也打电话给餐厅 who also were calling the restaurant
说我们想立刻来这里用餐 saying we want to come there right now.
一个枪击者刚来过 Like, a gunman has come through,
然后他们就打过来问 and literally, they're calling, being like,
我们什么时候能带孩子来吃披萨啊 when can we bring our kids to have pizza?
你们不能关店 You can't close.
就是很简单的配方 Like, it's a simple recipe:
家庭 社区 和真相 It's family, community and truth,
这就是为什么我们还在这儿的原因 like that's what, that's why we're here.
2019年联邦调查局判定像「披萨门」这样的阴谋论 为一种新形式的国内恐怖主义威胁
联邦调查局也预警称虚假宣传活动 已经瞄准了2020年总统大选
尽管警钟已经敲响 但美国参议院关于增加大选安全的法案仍然没能通过
记者 教育者和学者们 仍然在为还我们一个真实的信息环境而战斗
O r a n g e 字 幕 组 诚 译